861. JOSEPH PERRY proceedingsdefend was indicted, for feloniously stealing, on the 5th day of September , one steel watch-chain, value 6 d. a seal, value 6 d. a silver penny, and a piece of foreign coin, value an halfpenny , the property of Joseph Blake proceedingsvictim .

JOSEPH BLAKE < no role > sworn.

I lost the things mentioned in the indictment the second day of Bartholomew-fair , pretty near seven, it was light at the time, but little light; the prisoner came alongside of me, and he snatched my chain; he had been along-side of me three or four minutes.

Did your chain break? - Yes, and there was two pieces fixed to it, there was a yellow seal; I had it about a week, there was a piece of silver coin, and a piece of foreign coin, plated with silver, fixed to the chain; I saw my property stealing from this hole in my breeches, and I struck him with this very same hand, the right hand; says I, you want to rob me of my watch, and you have got my chain; who me! says he, and he dropped it directly; I saw the chain fall out of his own hand; I picked it up myself, the constable has had the care of it ever since; then he began to beat me, and cut my eye and face; I hallooed out constable; a man came the next day to me that pretended to be a constable; he called me out; says he, Mr. Blake I want to speak to you.

Prisoner. Did not we fight in the fair? - I was not fighting, I was defending myself.

Prisoner. Did not you say to me, you G - d d - d b - r, if it had not been for my pocket you would have taken my watch? - No.

MARY BLAKE < no role > sworn.

I am the wife of Joseph Blake < no role > ; I was at Bartholomew-fair the second day of the fair, and as we were coming through the fair, we were surrounded by a very great mob, and my husband was crying out how he had lost his watch; I had hold of his jacket for fear of losing him; I saw him strike the prisoner, I am sure it was him, I saw him by the side of my husband before; my husband's hat flew off in the fight, and I went to save it; I did not see the prisoner do any thing to my husband; while I was stooping down somebody

snatched at my cloak; then I did not see my husband again till I saw his nose bleeding and a black eye; then the constable took the prisoner away; I believe his name is Tillcock, and Dunchin wanted to make it up, and give my husband three or four shillings; my husband said he had lost his watch; after I saw his watch on the tap-room table facing Wood-street Compter; the officer asked him if he had lost any thing, and he said then, he only lost his chain, and he gave the officer his watch-chain from his waistcoat pocket; it had a brass chain and two pieces of coin.

Prisoner. The first time she came she said she knew nothing of the business? - I gave the same account I do now; I did not say that I knew nothing of it.

WILLIAM DINCHIN < no role > sworn.

I was bred to the sea; I get my bread by rigging; I was with the prosecutor and his wife; at this time it was between six and seven; I cannot recollect what day of the week or fair; I was behind Blake with his wife, I saw Blake striking at a man, I had not seen the man near him before, and there were a parcel of people together, and they got a fighting; I could not get to the man, and I looked for the woman, and the constables had got the prisoner; and I saw Blake's face cut; Blake said in the fair the prisoner wanted his watch; I saw no more of it till we came to the public house, and Blake took out his chain, and said see how it is broke; and the constable Tillcock asked him for it, and he gave it to him.

(Describes it.)

Court to Mrs. Blake. What did your husband say? - He said the man wanted to rob him of his watch.

RICHARD TILCOCK < no role > sworn.

I am a constable; as we were coming down Bartholomew-fair there were a number of people together, and a person called out, constable, I have lost my watch; I saw the prosecutor's face all bloody; he said the man is there, and pointed to the prisoner; the prisoner had his coat off, my partner, Sargeson, he took hold of him and delivered him to me; I searched him, I found nothing upon him; he gave charge of him, for that he had lost his watch.

Are you sure of that? - Yes; this charge was first given in Smithfield, and afterwards when he came to the Compter; I asked him for his address, and he gave it in Nightingale-lane; then he pulled out the chain, and said the prisoner forced the chain from his watch; he did not say then that he had taken his watch; I think he was sober, but being an Italian I could hardly understand him; but I am sure he said in the fair that he had lost his watch: I have had the chain ever since (Deposed to) I swear to the chain and the pieces of coin; I have kept the watch also.

PRISONER's DEFENCE.

This Blake was going on in Bartholomew-fair; I was before him and he knocked me down, and said I took this watch; I got up and asked him what that was for; he said I had got his watch, then we fought two or three rounds, I hit him on the nose and gave him a black eye, I suppose that exasperated him, and he run into the Crown, and called for two constables; they came and took hold of me; nothing was said about the chain; he had the chain and his watch then; then he laid hold of his chain, and said, you God d - d b - r, if it was not for this hole I should have lost my watch; then we came to Wood-street Compter, I thought it was for striking him; I knew nothing of this till next morning; then when we went before the Alderman he had his chain in his hand, and said I broke it off; if you will hear this witness.

WILLIAM SARGESON < no role > sworn.

I am a chandler; I live in Grub-street; I am a housekeeper.

Are you a constable? - Not this year; I have been several years running; I was employed by the Marshal, along with Mr. Tillcock in Bartholomew fair; there were a number of constables employed at that time.

Prisoner. Did not you see the chain hanging to the man's breeches after this affair that he charged me with; when the cry was, constables, I have lost my watch? - I and Tillcock made our way into the crowd; I was the first of the two; I laid hold of the prisoner; Tillcock was at the same time as close as he could be; I gave him into Tillcock's hands; Tillcock gave him leave to put on his coat; I was keeping off the mob as much as I could; the prosecutor was close to my elbow; before we got to the end of Duck-lane, Tillcock was before the prisoner; Mr. Blake was along with me; he laid hold of his watch chain; I was about three steps behind, with the prosecutor close by my elbow; Mr. Blake swore a great oath, with a bloody b-g-r that if it had not been for a round turn in his breeches, he would have had his watch; then he pulled at the chain, and pulled up the chain; I did not see the watch, but I saw the chain; I replied, put your chain in, or otherwise you will be done of it yet; this was after I let the prisoner put on his coat; I swear his chain appeared fast, the same as mine is now; and I said, put your chain in, or else you will be done of it; the crowd was so, I could hardly keep them off of Tillcock and the prisoner; he pulled so hard at it with a terrible oath that he drew up his breeches waistband.

What was the oath he made use of? - The latter part of the oath was bloody b - g - r.

What did he say when he made use of that oath? - That he had done him of his watch if it had not been for that round turn.

What? - That he would have got his watch, had it not been for that round turn.

Just now you said something else, and I want you to repeat it? - I cannot recollect the other part; he said, he had done him of his watch, if it had not been for that round turn; we went on to the compter; when we got to the public house to take his address; he then produced the chain loose.

Where did he produce it from? - I cannot tell.

Will you swear that he did not produce it from his waistcoat pocket? - Was I to swear so, I should swear more than I know; I do not know from what pocket he produced it; he did produce it.

Who was it that advised Mr. Blake to make it up with the prisoner? - As we came along Love-lane, the prisoner called me first, and desired I would speak to the prosecutor that he would make him satisfaction for striking of him; I believe Tillcock heard the words; I could not tell who had been the first aggressor, not then; upon which I told Blake, that the prisoner was willing to make him satisfaction for striking of him.

Did Tillcock hear that? - I do not know; Blake was five or six steps forward all the way; I spoke to Blake; he refused it; and I told the prisoner he would have nothing to do with it.

How happened that you was not constable this year? - I do not know; I have been a substitute several years.

Was you ever turned out of office? - No, my Lord.

Never? - No.

When you was at the Compter the charge was made? - Yes.

Now on hearing this gross and abominable charge made of stealing this chain; when you saw it found in the man's breeches before; what did you say to Mr. Blake on that occasion? - I did not say any thing to Mr. Blake then; it did not strike my mind at that time; I mentioned it the next morning to the Magistrate.

Why did not you tell Mr. Blake,

"you must be a very bad man; it is but a very few minutes ago that you shewed me this chain whole; you must have broke it from your fob?" - My Lord, the truth is, it did not strike my mind till the next morning; I had quite forgot what passed in the street at that moment; the next morning I told the Magistrate of the proceeding.

Who subpoened you here? - The prisoner.

Did you come by a subpoena, or without one? - By a subpoena.

Have you got that subpoena? - I believe I have.

(Produces it.)

When did you receive this subpoena? - On Thursday afternoon, I think it was.

The prisoner was in the room when this charge was made against him? - He was put into the compter before the chain was produced.

You did not go to the Magistrate that night? - No, not before the next day.

What did the prisoner say to the charge? - The prisoner denied it; and I acquainted the Magistrate what I have acquainted your Lordship.

What did Blake say to that? - Blake gave me ill language, but it was immaterial; the Magistrate thought I had been fee'd by the prisoner; Blake persisted in the charge, and first of all he said, that he took it out of the prisoner's hand; then he varied from it, and said, that the prisoner threw it down, and he picked it up, and first he sung out that he had lost his watch.

How came you to say that the prosecutor gave the same account that he has given in Court? - I was there when he was examined.

How do you know what account he has given now? - I hear that he gives account that he took it up.

From whence have you heard that? - That might not be the identical word.

How do you know what he said in this Court, have you received any message out of this Court from the prisoner here? - No, upon my oath.

Nor had any intelligence from him? - No farther than the subpoena.

Have not you been in Court during the whole time the prosecutor was examined? - Yes, my Lord, I was; I did not hear the witnesses for the prisoner ordered out; I heard the witnesses for the prosecutor ordered out; or else it would have been the same to me; I came here with no tale; I never saw the man before nor had any conversation with him; Tillcock and the prisoner were before, and Blake and me were behind some steps.

How did the prisoner get at you to subpoena you? - He was examined three times at Guildhall before he was committed, and there he got my name; I met his wife one day promiscuously in St. Giles's; I knew nothing of the man; I met her once since that again.

How came you to know it was his wife? - They said so when he was examined; she attended the examination every day; but Tillcock can tell as well as me.

What sort of a woman was she? - A young woman, appearing about two or three and twenty.

Did you give the man's wife or him your direction? - Why I do not know whether I did mention it at the Castle.

It is impossible you can have forgot? - I believe I did at the Castle, before Tillcock and the prosecutor.

Did you give that direction in writing? I believe he wrote it in writing.

Did you give it in writing? - I really cannot say who wrote it; going up Guildhall yard, Blake's wife says to him, never mind, swear that you took it out of his hand.

Was you employed this fair time by the Marshal? - Yes.

Which of the Marshals? - Mr. Miller.

Did he pay you for your attendance? - Yes; he gave us an order for the money.

Court to Prosecutor. Did you ever say at any time that you took the chain out of the prisoner's hand? - It is false, every thing; because I never spoke to him.

Did you say that before the Magistrate? - I do not recollect that I did; I told the Magistrate that I saw the chain in his hand and he dropped it directly.

Did you ever say that you took it out of the prisoner's hand? - I picked it up directly.

Court. Let Mrs. Blake go out of Court.

Now in Guildhall yard, when you came away, did your wife say to you, never mind, swear that you took it out of his hand? - No, she said no such thing to me; why should I swear any thing that is not true.

Did your wife ever tell you to swear that? - No, she never told me nothing.

Was not it the last winess that desired you to make it up? - Yes.

When he wanted to make it up, what did he say? - He spoke to my other witness Dunchin twice; a man came to me twice from Sargesson; Sargesson never spoke to me; it was Dunchin that came to me.

Do you recollect coming home whether you put your hand into your pocket or into your fob? - I took out my chain and shewed it to William Dunchin < no role > , and put it directly into my green-shag waistcoat pocket; that was in the fair.

When you came in the house you shewed the chain to Tillcock, did you, when you was walking home, put your hand to your fob and say any thing to him? - I never spoke to him all the way home; the constable offered me two guineas the next day to make it up; says he, come here, I want to speak to you; says he, you are French, I know that very well, says he, you do not know the law of England; yes, says I; says he, he will be tried at the Old Bailey, and the costs to you will be sixty pounds; my wife was in the public house, at the sign of the Castle; he called me out to him; I wn out to him twenty yards.

Court. Call in Mrs. Blake

Did you go with Mr. Blake backwards and forwards to the Magistrate? - Yes, Sir, every day.

How do you and your husband get your living in Nightingale-lane? - Only by his going to sea.

Did you tell your husband any time, never mind, swear that he had the chain in his hand? - No; I always was quite against it; I wished to have no trouble with it; I am very sure I never told him, never mind it, swear that he had the chain in his hand; I could take my affidavy I never said such a word as that.

Court. Let Mr. and Mrs. Blake come forward, and let Sargesson stand up together.

Now Sargesson, Mr. and Mrs. Blake, on the solemn oath they have taken, have both positively sworn that what you have said is false; Mr. and Mrs. Blake swear positively, that there was no such word said, as never mind it, swear that he had the chain in his hand; now I ask you, upon your oath, whether you will still persist in what you have said? - Yes, I will, point blank, swear that she said to him in Guildhall-yard, going up on his shoulder, never mind, swear that you took the chain out of his hand.

Court to Mrs. Blake. When did you see Sargesson first, did you see him in your way home talking with your husband? - No, Sir, Sargesson came with us to the public house from the fair; he was first with my husband, then with the prisoner.

Did you hear any conversation between the fair and the public house, between Sargesson and your husband? - No farther than he wanted to persuade my husband to make it up; he said you had better take four or five shillings, and make it up, than let it go any farther; it will only cost you a deal of trouble.

To make what up? - I did not hear him say what.

Did you hear him say the b - g - r wanted totake away my watch? - No, Sir, I did not hear him say so, because he very seldom makes ude of that word; he might say it, but I did not hear him; we went to the public house in Guildhall-yard every day.

Do you remember Sargesson's beckoning your husband out for any thing? - Yes, Sir, I was sitting by at the same time.

How long was your husband out? - About a quarter of an hour.

You did not follow him to know what Sargesson said to him? - No, Sir, I did not; I asked him several times, but he did not tell me.

Court to Dunchin. Do you know whether you saw the watch and the chain separate in Smithfield or any time before he got to the compter? - Yes, Sir, as they were going through the fair, after the prisoner was in custody, the prosecutor took the chain in his hand, and put it into his waistcoat pocket; at the pu blic house he took out the chain of his watch out of his waistcoat pocket, and gave it to the constable; I saw him, as he was going along the fair, put it in his waistcoat pocket; I came with them to the public house; he had no conversation with Sargesson; he was going on in a passion, with his face bloody; and Sargesson came to me twice, to endeavour to make it up with the prosecutor, for it would only cost trouble, and I went to him the first time, says I, you have got your watch and your chain, what signifies; he said, he would have satisfaction.

Was there any conversation between the last witness, Sargesson, as he was walking through the fair to the public house and the prosecutor? - I did not take notice of any.

Did he say any thing to you about making up the blows or any thing of the kind? - No, he did not say any thing of the kind; Sargesson came to me another time, then he asked me to advise the man to make it up; he did not say a word that I know about blows or any thing, only to make it up, that it might not go any farther.

Did Sargesson say any thing at the public house that you recollect? - No, Sir.

He did not tell the prosecutor, why you are a bad man, you broke it yourself, or any thing of that kind? - No, Sir.

Did the prosecutor, at the public house, charge the prisoner with having taken his chain? - He did, and Sargesson said nothing to it; I was at the Castle the last day; but I cannot recollect whether the prosecutor was called out by any body or not.

Prosecutor. I came home the 21st of August; I bought the watch chain and key since I came home, because the watch I had when I was in the kingdom before; then I took it out of the kingdom.

GUILTY .

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. ROSE.