189. (L.) Samuel Willson proceedingsdefend , merchant , was indicted, for that he having in his custody a certain forged bond, with the name John Lawson < no role > thereunto subscribed, purporting to be from himself and John Lawson to Thomas Fogg < no role > , dated Nov. 29, 1758, in the penalty of 1200 l. for the payment of 600 l. and for publishing the same, well knowing it to have been falsely forged and counterfeited, with intention to defraud Thomas Fogg. It was laid over again to be done with intention to defraud Thomas Higgs proceedingsvictim . It was laid also to be done with intention to defraud John Lawson proceedingsvictim . +

Thomas Fogg, I live in Lad-lane.

Q. How long have you known Thomas Higgs < no role > ?

Fogg. I have known him between 5 and 6 years, I had of him some securities deposited with me.

Q. Where had he them?

Fogg. I do not know that, the prisoner was an indorser, but I do not know which way Mr. Higgs had them.

Q. Was the prisoner the last indorser?

Fogg. I do not know whether he was or not, there were 3 bills, they were for 453 l. 1 s. 2 of them were upon Mr. Tittley, and I think one upon Mr. Lawson.

Q. What did you do with them?

Fogg. I sign'd them over to the prisoner at the bar.

Q. Who were the drawers of these bills?

Fogg. Upon my oath I do not know who the drawer of any was.

Q. Had you any application made you by the prisoner at the bar, concerning any sum of money?

Fogg. On the 28th of November, 1758, the prisoner call'd upon me, and made application to take these bills out of my hands, me giving him some more money, and signing him over a policy of assurance on a Ship call'd the Snow Venus; he wanted more money than I was willing to give, I believe he wanted 200 l. more than what I did agree for at last; the last agreement was this, we met on the 29th in the morning, and I agreed with him to give him 104 l. 19 s. in cash, and I to stop 42 l. to make a reinsurance for 2 of the bills that were stopp'd payment, Mr. Tittley's was one, so I stopp'd 42 l. out of the 600, in order to get the policy fill'd up, that makes the 600 l.

Q. Whose money was this that you was so to negotiate?

Fogg. It was for Mr. Higgs; I gave Mr. Higgs a memorandum for 600 l. for an accountable acknowledgment.

Q. In what manner was this 600 l. to be secured?

Fogg. By a policy of Insurance, and a joint bond between him and Mr. Lawson for 600 l.

Q. Whether you would have advanced this money on the account of Mr. Higgs, unless you had the joint bond of Willson and Lawson?

Fogg. No.

Q. What day was this agreement made?

Fogg. On the 29th of November, 1758, about 9 in the morning, as near as possible.

Q. Did you go with the prisoner to any notary or scrivner?

Fogg. Yes, to Mr. Hewit, in Birchin-lane, a notary public.

Q. Were those things shown to him?

Fogg. They were, Mr. Hewit prepared the bond.

Q. Did the prisoner go to Mr. Hewit?

Fogg. He did.

Q. What were the directions given to fill up the bond?

Fogg. It was to fill up the joint bond by Willson and Lawson to me for 600 l.

Q. Who gave directions for that?

Fogg. We were both together, the prisoner and I; whether he or I ordered it I cannot tell, but I dare say we were both there at that time.

Q. Did you see the bond prepared?

Fogg. I did, Mr. Wilson took it out and said, he could see Mr. Lawson, but we could not so conveniently see him, or to that purpose; he went away with it, and in about 3 quarters of an hour return'd (it could not be an hour) he brought it with the name Lawson sign'd to it.

Counsel. Then you did not go with him to see it sign'd by Lawson?

Fogg. No, I did not.

Q. Look upon this bond. (He takes it in his hand)

Fogg. This is it; I think he brought it back sign'd with both names.

Q. Was Betham in the room at Mr. Hewit's when the bond was drawn?

Fogg. No, I never saw him at that time.

Q. Did the prisoner return with this bond in the form it now appears, that is, executed and witnessed?

Fogg. He did, to Mr. Hewit's office, it was witnessed by John Betham < no role > .

Q. Who did he deliver it to?

Fogg. He deliver'd it to me.

Q. Whose hand writing is on the back of it?

Fogg. I do not know.

Q. Who was present when he delivered it to you?

Fogg. Mr. Higgs was.

Q. What did you do upon this?

Fogg. Upon this I gave up the bills of exchange.

Q. Has the money ever been paid upon this bond?

Fogg. I have received the money, but not of the prisoner at the bar.

Q. Who did you receive the money of?

Fogg. Of Mr. Staples and Mr. Winterbottom, assignees to Lawson's estate.

Q. Should you have advanced this sum of 104 l. 19 s. without the security of this bond?

Fogg. No, I should not.

Cross Examination.

Q. Who were those bills deposited with you by?

Fogg. They were deposited with me by Mr. Higgs.

Q. Had you any property in the bills?

Fogg. No.

Q. On what occasions were they deposited with you?

Fogg. He desired me to do it for him, to apply to Mr. Willson to get what security upon them I could, as they were a little dubious; Mr. Willson had applyed to me before Mr. Higgs did.

Q. Are you sure they were indorsed by the prisoner at the bar?

Fogg. I am sure they were.

Q. What interest had Mr. Lawson in those bills; by what you say it appears he was acceptor of one of them, but which I cannot tell.

Fogg. I think I saw his name on the back of one or both of the other, but I am not sure.

Q. Tell the jury how Mr. Lawson was concerned in the fate of the 3 bills.

Fogg. Any bills that come in the course of business I copy, but those I never did copy, those were put into my hand by Mr. Higgs on the 28th, but I never thought them worth putting into my book, it being so soon done.

Q. Are you certain that the name of Lawson was upon any of the bills?

Fogg. I really think it was connected with 2 of them.

Q. Was there any application made to you on the 28th by the prisoner?

Fogg. I think there was that same day.

Q. Be particular as to that.

Fogg. He came and offered me the policy of insurance, and the things belonging to the ship, for the consideration of more money than what we did agree to at last.

Q. Whether Mr. Willson did not apply to you, and tell you, that the persons that were liable to pay these bills could not pay them, and the efore made some farther application to you?

Fogg. He offered me the policy of assurance, and wanted more money.

Q. Whether he did not tell you he was afraid the bills would not be duly honoured?

Fogg. I believe he might, he made me some proposal.

Q. What was that proposal?

Fogg. It was to have about 300 l. in cash, and to have those bills taken out of my hands.

Q. We are now upon the 28th of November I have nothing to say on the 29th now; what proposal from Mr. Willson on the 28th?

Fogg. We agreed. our first meeting was on the 27th at night, or the 28th at the Baptist head tavern, Milk-street.

Q. Was he and you along at the first meeting?

Fogg. At the first meeting I think there were some people along with him.

Q. What was the first proposal to you the first time you met?

Fogg. I can't recollect the first proposal.

Q. Did he mention any thing to you of a ship, the policy of Insurance?

Fogg. I believe he did, the policy of Insurance, a bill of sale, and charter party.

Q Who was present at the first proposal?

Fogg. To the best of my knowledge there were 3 or 4, but not when we talk'd about business, for I look upon it that they were in another box.

Q. Was Mr. Lawson there?

Fogg. There was a gentleman, that some gentlemen call'd Mr. Lawson.

Q. What was the sum mentioned?

Fogg. I cannot say the sum.

Q. Was it for a thousand pounds?

Fogg. I don't think it was more than that.

Q. Was it more than 600 l.

Fogg. I know it was more by several hundreds than what I agreed for.

Q. What was the security?

Fogg. It was upon the assignment of the policy.

Q. Had you any conversation with Mr. Higgs before the 28th.

Fogg. I think I had.

Q. Was he the principle party?

Fogg. He was.

Q. Suppose this matter had been transacted on that night, should you, or should you not, have been satisfied with the policy?

Fogg. I should have been satisfied with it, but we had not agreed upon this bond, till we went to Mr. Hewit's office; Mr. Higgs and I met again the next day.

Q. Did you ever see Mr. Lawson besides that time you mention?

Fogg. No, not as I know of.

Q. Can you tell the value of this ship?

Fogg. Indeed I cannot.

Q. What was she insured for?

Fogg. She was insured for 13 hundred pounds.

Q. Did you see Mr. Willson on the 28th?

Fogg. I dare say I did.

Q. Where?

Fogg. I do not recollect where I saw him in the morning, it was before we went to Mr. Hewit's office, we were at a coffee house in Swithin's alley.

Q. Suppose the matter had been transacted the next morning, should you have had any difficulty about it?

Fogg. I don't know that I should.

Q You say a person that met on this occasion was name Lawson, and you don't know Mr. Lawson.

Fogg. No; I did not know whether he was a good or a bad man.

Q. Did you look upon him to be concerned in that ship?

Fogg. I did, but I am a very little judge in the case.

Q. Did you know that Mr. Lawson made an assignment to Mr. Willson of this ship?

Fogg. I did.

Q. What became of that assignment?

Fogg. That was an assignment by Willson to me.

Q. At that time did you rely upon a bond given to you by a stranger?

Fogg. I did not much rely upon it.

Q. Whether before you went to Mr. Hewit's you in your mind formed any security, by a stranger giving a bond to you?

Fogg. Not at all.

Q. What first induc'd you to take this bond?

Fogg. It was by Hewit's advice; he said, he thought the assignment was not sufficient without the rest, and at the same time he advised me to take a joint bond of the men, by way of collateral security; this was on the 29th.

Q. Do you remember any thing mentioned by Mr. Hewit, that there was a receipt in the body of it?

Fogg. He told me he believed it was not safe without it; he said, without the receipt on the outside it was not good.

Q. Do you know any thing of Mr. Lawson's having been absent upon the 28th?

Fogg. No.

Q. Did you enquire what Mr. Lawson was?

Fogg. No, I did not; I gave myself little trouble, but kept the securities I had in my hand.

Q. Had you any reason to think Mr. Willson came to you upon any unfair principle?

Fogg. No.

Q. Upon whom did you pin your faith?

Fogg. Mr. Hewit advised me, and told me it would be much best to have the two; then I would not do it without.

Q. Suppose this fact had happened, that no bond had been entered into at all, should you, or should you not, have thought this was a good security for 600 l.

Fogg. I might have thought it good.

Q. Should you at that time, if the bond had never been mentioned?

Fogg. I should.

Q. He is indicted for a forgery with intent to defraud; do you think, considering the nature of the security put into your hands, he did it with intent to defraud you?

Fogg. I would be as tender as possible; I have had various opinions upon that.

Counsel. Then there I'll leave it.

Counsel for Crown. Then on the 27th of November at the Babtist head, it was agreed upon to advance a larger sum?

Fogg. Yes.

Q. Did you intend to transact this on your own judgement, or to take the assistance of Mr. Hewit?

Fogg. I should not have transacted it on my own opinion.

Q. If Willson had not produced the bond, should you have advanced 104 l. 19 s.

Fogg. No.

Q. Whether you apprehended Mr. Willson intended to deceive you in the nature of your security?

Fogg. Then I thought it to be good.

Q. Now what is your opinion, would you have advanced the money if you had known the name John Lawson < no role > was a forged name?

Fogg. No, Sir.

Counsel. Then without the additional credit of John Lawson < no role > you should not have advanced the money.

Fogg. No.

Counsel for Prisoner. Why did you go to Mr. Hewit?

Fogg. He was my acquaintance.

Q. Did you not recommend it at Hamlin's coffee house to go to some notary, but mentioned none in particular?

Fogg. I think I mentioned Mr. Hewit.

Q. Look at this name (meaning the name of the witness) do you think it to have been done with any disguise?

Fogg. This is the name of Betham.

Q. What became of the ship?

Fogg. The ship was taken by the French, and ransomed.

Note, The Remainder of these Proceedings will be published in a few Days.

THE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commissioners of the Peace, Oyer, and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery FOR THE CITY OF LONDON, And also the Gaol Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX, HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Wednesday the 21st, Thursday the 22d, and Friday the 33d, of MAY,

In the Thirty-third Year of His MAJESTY'S Reign. NUMBER VI. PART II. for the YEAR 1760. Being the Fifth SESSIONS in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honble Sir Thomas CHITTY < no role > , Knt. LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.

LONDON:

Printed, and sold by G. KEARSLY (Successor to the late Mr. Robinson) at the Golden-Lion, in Ludgate-Street, 1760.

[Price Four-pence.]

THE PROCEEDINGS ON THE

King's Commissions of the Peace, and Oyer and Terminer, for the City of LONDON, and at the General Sessions < no role > of Gaol Delivery for Newgate, holden for the City of LONDON, and County of MIDDLESEX, at Justice-Hall in the Old-Bailey, &c.

THOMAS HIGGS < no role > . I was acquainted with the prisoner Willson; he was indebted to me; I had 3 bills that I had discounted, they amounted to 453 l. 1 s. 2 of them were on Benjaman Tittley, drawn by John Tittley < no role > , junior, payable to him, I believe Willson had indorsed them all 3; they were drawn upon Lawson; I kept them in my possession till very near due, I believe one of them was due, and Willson applied to me with a policy and charter party of the snow Venus. He said, you have got some bills in your possession, and if you can muster up 800 or a thousand pounds, I'll take them bills out of your hands; he did mention Tittley's being bad at that time, I believe, he left it with me to show to my friend; I was very intimate with Mr. Samuel Touchet < no role > , and I apply'd to him, he was not in the way; he look'd at the under-writers, he did not know many of them; and afterwards I apply'd to some more friends; then I had heard more of Mr. Willson than before; I thought it wou'd be a little troublesome, so I thought to put it out of my hands, and Mr. Fogg being an acquaintance I told him the case, that I had such bills in my hands, which I was afraid would be attended with some trouble, so I made free with him, as he had more time upon his hands than I had, and put them into his hands to get it done as cheap as he could, not to give him so much as he wanted, 800 or 1000 l. and take the bills out of my hands; we said, we thought 4 or 500 was enough, and at last we agreed for 600 l.

Q. When was that agreement?

Higgs. I believe the thing was brought to me 2 or 3 days before christmas.

Q. Who was present?

Higgs. Mr. Fogg, and I believe Mr. Betham were; the security proposed to us were those things; we apply'd to Mr. Hewit about it, and he looking over the papers, he had made some of the writings to that ship, and he put it in our heads to have a bond betwixt Lawson and him, besides the policy, with all the writings belonging to the ship; I had made over the bills to Mr. Fogg, and had Mr. Fogg's memorandum for them; I gave him 2 draughts, 1 for 76 l. the other made it amount to 140 l. 19 s. then I deliverd up the 3 bills; Mr. Willson, Mr. Fogg and I were in Mr. Hewit's office on the 29th of November, 1758, at the time Mr. Hewit was filling of it up.

Q. What time was that?

Higgs. It was I believe about 9 or 10 o'clock.

Q. What was done with that bond?

Higgs. Mr. Willson took it out of Mr. Hewit's office, and said he would get it sign'd by Lawson; he brought it back in about 3 quarters of an hour, sign'd by Lawson, and witnessed by Betham's; when he brought it back he said, he had got it done, and there was 104 l. 19 s. paid in my presence.

Q. Did you part with your money upon that security?

Higgs. I did.

Cross Examination.

Q. Did you first apply to Mr. Willson?

H iggs. No, Sir, Mr. Willson first apply'd to me, I gave him an account, the 2 notes upon Tittley were doubtful notes, one was due before the other; then we heard Tittley was stopp'd.

Q. Did not Mr. Willson tell you 2 notes of the 3 were doubtful?

Higgs. I believe he might say the 2 on Tittley were.

Q. Whose was the other note?

Higgs. One was draw upon Lawson, and accepted by Lawson.

Q. Was Lawson's name on either of Tittley's notes?

Higgs. I really cannot recollect that it was?

Q. Did he come and take them up for himself, or for Lawson?

Higgs. For himself; I never saw Lawson, nor spoke to him,

Q. Were either of them indorsed by Lawson?

Higgs. I cannot say that any of them were?

Q. Should not you have look'd upon this ship as a sufficient security for your money?

Higgs. He said, go and ask any body about it; I went to a neighbour, and he told me he would not give 50 l. for it; after that I went to Mr. Touchit; the under-writers said they thought it was good.

Q. How long had you the papers in your custody to make inquiry about them?

Higgs. I believe about 3 days.

Q. Who was the first person that mentioned the bond?

Higgs. Mr. Hewit was; Mr. Fogg was recommended to Mr. Hewit by one Mr. Steward, in Paternoster-row; Mr. Willson went with us to Mr. Hewit's house.

Q. Was not Betham with you before that?

Higgs. He was with us once or twice before.

Q. What was he?

Higgs. I am told he was Mr. Lawson's clerk; I met Betham and Willson at the warehouse in Lad-lane.

Q. Whether it was not Mr. Willson's own proposal, that 42 l. to make good the assurance of the policy?

Higgs. I believe Mr. Hewit mentioned it, to have it kept in Mr. Fogg's hands.

Q. Whether if Mr. Hewit had not started that of the bond, you should not have thought the assignment a sufficient security?

Higgs. As Mr. Tittley's notes were deemed dubious, we were willing to make it as safe as we could.

Q. If Mr. Lawson had been there, whether you would have taken his bond as any security at all?

Higgs. I believe I should, because he was then deemed a good man; I had inquired after him, and found he lived in good reputation; I believe we should have taken his bond, but I should have made a little more inquiry.

Q. How long had you known Mr. Willson before this?

Higgs. I had known him about 6 or 9 months before.

Q. Whether you think Mr. Willson had any intention to defraud you when he brought you his assignment first?

Higgs. I really can't take upon me to say.

Q. Now upon your oath, whether, when he brought you his assignment you had any notion he had an intention to defraud you, or whether you do now think he had such intention?

Higgs. Now I do, but I did not then.

Q. I ask you, whether you think he had any intention to defraud you before the bond was started?

Higgs. No, I do not think he intended to defraud me then.

David Hewit < no role > . I am a notary public, and live in Birchin-lane.

Q. How long have you known the prisoner?

Hewit. I have known him 5 or 6 years,

Q. Do you know Lawson?

Hewit. I have known him several years, I have known them both in good credit.

Q. Look upon this bond, whose writing is the body of it (he takes it in his hand)

Hewit. I fill'd it up.

Q. When?

Hewit. On the 29th of November 1758, in the morning.

Q. Where?

Hewit. In my own office.

Q. Who was present?

Hewit. Mr. Willson the prisoner, Mr. Higgs, and Mr. Fogg.

Q. By whose order did you fill it up?

Hewit. I mentioned it as a necessary security, and that the money could not be lent without that as a collateral security.

Q. Was Lawson there?

Hewit. No, he was not.

Q. How lately had you seen Lawson before the 28th of November.

Hewit. I believe I saw him about a fortnight before.

Q. Did you take him to be a man of good credit at the time of your filling up this bond?

Hewit. I did.

Q. Was Lawson join'd with Willson to make the bond go down the better?

Hewit. Yes.

Q. What became of the bond after you had filled it up on the 29th.

Hewit. Willson took it away; he said, he would take it to Mr. Lawson and get it sign'd by him.

Q. Did any body offer to go with Willson, or were there any talk about who was to be the subscribing witness.

Hewit. No; he went along, and returned in about 3 quarters of an hour or less, and brought it back with him.

Q. Did he bring it back in the condition in which it now appears?

Hewit. Yes, he did; it appear'd to have been executed by Lawson and Willson, attested by Betham.

Q. Do you know Lawson's hand writing?

Hewit. I do not know it so well as to sware to it, I took it to be his hand writing at that time, but I cannot say whose hand writing it is.

Q. Do you know when Lawson went out of Town?

Hewit. No.

Cross Examination.

Q. Had you heard any thing of Mr. Lawson within a day or a before this bond was proposed?

Hewit. No, I had not.

Q. Have you seen any notes of his?

Hewit. I have drawn charter parties for him.

Q. Does he write such a hand as this?

Hewit. I can't swear particular.

Q. Do you know any thing of this Betham?

Hewit. He was Mr. Lawson's clerk; I have seen him several times at his house.

Q. Suppose you had carried a bill to Mr. Lawson's for acceptance, if Mr. Betham had accepted it, should you have had any objection to that?

Hewit. No.

Q. Have not you understood that Mr. Betham had that general power of signing for Lawson's name?

Hewit. I know nothing of that; but I never heard that it was a custom in the city of London, for a merchant's clerk to sign a bond for his master, no, never.

John Betham < no role > . In the year 1758, I was clerk to Mr. Lawson.

Q. How long had you been clerk to him before he was a bankrupt?

Betham. About 15 months.

Q. When was the commission taken out against him?

Betham. It was taken out about the 11th or 12th of December, 1758.

Q. Do you know Mr. Willson?

Betham. I do very well.

Q. How long have you been acquainted with him?

Betham. About 3 quarters of a year before Mr. Lawson was a bankrupt.

Q. Look at this Bond; do you remember at any time any transaction of setting a name to it, and how it happen'd?

Betham. Mr. Lawson having frequent occasion to raise money upon bills, he had a greater demand than he could raise himself, he apply'd to the prisoner to get him a great many bills discounted, which he did to a considerable value; the holders of bills and drawers both becoming insolvent, they apply'd to Mr. Willson to make good those bills, as being an indorser on them; Mr. Lawson told him his affairs were become bad, and he could not possibly raise money to take up those bills, but he would make him assignments, that he should not be hurt, if he would raise him money upon bills; accordingly he made him an assignment, which I think was executed on the 20th of November 1758, of several debts, amongst which was a policy of assignment and charter party of a ship which Mr. Lawson had at sea; this Mr. Willson proposed to sign over to Mr. Fogg and Mr. Higgs, for what they had against him in bills; I was by at the time, it was at a coffee-house in Milk-street on the 27th of November; I don't know whether they came to a revolution or not; the day after they came to an agreement to raise 200 l. to make up the 600 l. but before it was executed, they insisted upon having a joint bond from Willson and Lawson to strengthen the security.

Q. How do you know what was done, was you there at that time?

Betham. Mr. Willson told me this, I was not present; this was the 29th of November; he told me he had agreed to give them a joint bond; he brought it in the forenoon to me fill'd up to Mr. Lawson's Compting-house (I think) and said, he must have it executed by Mr. Lawson and himself, or else he could not pacify those people, they would not take the security, that was the policy of insurance and charter party, without the bond: he proposed to me, for me to sign the name Lawson upon it; I objected to it, and said, I fear'd it might be attended with bad consequences to myself; and not being acquainted with the nature of those things, I did not chuse to do it; he said, he had no intent to injure any body by it, and what he meant was to lodge it with other security as a collateral security to pacify those gentlemen, that they should not arrest him for the money; that he in a little time should be able to raise money, and take up the security out of their hands; and I might depend upon it, I should come to no harm by it; by which means he persuaded me to sign the name John Lawson < no role > to it; I did it in the presence of the prisoner, at his desire and request, but to the best of my knowledge I did not so much as read the bond.

Q. Was there a seal on it?

Betham. I cannot tell whether there was or not, I put my own name to it as a witness, but that was at Willson's request.

Q. to Hewit. Did you put the seals to it?

Hewit. I did before I delivered it.

Betham. Mr. Willson took it from me, and I never saw it afterwards, till at Guild-hall in the hands of the prosecutor; Mr. Willson sign'd his name in my presence, after I had sign'd the name Lawson.

Q. Where was John Lawson < no role > at that time?

Betham. I believe he was at Harwich then, he was gone out of London.

Q. Was it executed on the day it bears date?

Betham. To the best of my knowledge it was.

Q. When did Lawson go out of Town?

Betham. It was either the 27th or 28th of November that I went either to the Bull or Boar inn White Chapel, when he went out of Town, I carried his trunk there.

Q. Where was he going?

Betham. He told me he intended to go to Holland; he spoke for a post-chaise to be ready for him at such an hour, he went in secrecy in the dusk of the evening.

Q. When did he return?

Betham. I was in the country when he return'd.

Q. Do you know that he did go to Holland?

Betham. After he was there I receiv'd letters from him.

Q. How soon after this bond was executed did he return?

Betham. He did not return for many months after.

Q. How long was it from the time of Mr. Willson's bringing the bond to you and his taking it away on the 29th?

Betham, It was not 5 minutes, I believe.

Q. About what hour of the day?

Betham. It might be about 9 o'clock in the forenoon.

Cross Examination.

Q. Did Mr. Willson do any business with Mr. Lawson?

Betham. No; but sometimes discounted him some bills, no other business.

Q. Was you with Mr. Willson when Mr. Lawson took his leave of him?

Betham. I was; his affairs were so bad he was going abroad.

Q. Did he not leave Mr. Willson a power to transact business for him, and leave orders with you to sign his name to things that Mr. Willson should think necessary?

Betham. No; after this assignment was made to Mr. Willson it was agreed upon, that I, as clerk to Mr. Lawson, was to have a power of attorney to transact business between Mr. Lawson and him.

Q. Did Lawson say, whatever he signs I'll stand to?

Betham. No.

Q. Have not you signed various things for Mr. Lawson?

Betham. I have while he was in being, several times, that is, as acceptor for him on bills; accepted for him, but then put my own name.

Q. Have not you drawn bills for him?

Betham. I don't know that this is a fair question; I have done nothing but with his consent, I have accepted bills, and wrote his name on them for him, and then I have wrote my own name afterwards, for Mr. Lawson.

Q. Have not you sign'd his name several times with nothing but John Lawson < no role > ?

Betham. With his consent I believe I have done it sometimes, without saying for John Lawson < no role > .

Q. Have not you took a deal of pains to learn to write his name?

Betham. Not his name in particular.

Q. Have not you taken many hours and days in order to write his name that you might forge it for him?

Betham. No, Sir.

Q. Have you not wrote his name very often on waste paper?

Betham. In his presence perhaps I might.

Q. Have you not, by Mr. Lawson's, order indeavour'd to write his name as near as you could to his writing, that it might be taken for his own?

Betham. No; never that it might be taken for his hand writing.

Q. At Mr. Willson's house did you never do it, and waste sheets after sheets?

Betham. I might, and it may be other things, but not to make an ill use of it.

Q. Do you know the maid at Mr. Willson's, Frances Wheeler < no role > .

Betham. I know several maids he had, but not by name.

Q. Where did he live?

Betham. He lived in St. Thomas Apostles in lodgings; there he had but one room, I have done it when he has been along with me, for no use nor no intent.

Q. How came you to sign this bond as a witness, after you had objected to the writing the other name.

Betham. Because Willson told me he was not going to make any ill use of them, and I should come into no trouble about it, I imagin'd he would not make an ill use of it.

Q. If Mr. Lawson had returned, or could have returned to this kingdom again, whether he should not have thought himself bound to stand by that writing of yours?

Betham. I cannot tell what another man's sentiments may be in such a case, I do not know whether he would have done it or not.

Q. Was not this assignment for Mr. Willson to take up Mr. Lawson's bills?

Betham. Yes; I look'd upon it to be to his benefit; if I had look'd upon it to be prejudicial to him, I would not have done it upon no consideration; that was one thing encourag'd me to do what I did.

Counsel for crown. Did you ever execute a deed for your master before?

Betham. No, I never did.

Q. Had you any authority to do this with his name from him?

Betham. No, I had not; because he was not in England as I know of.

Q. Was the 104 l. 19 s. for Lawson's use?

Betham. I know nothing of that.

Q. Was not this, executed in the presence of John Betham < no role > , intended to prove it was executed in your presence?

Betham. Yes.

Counsel for prisoner. Whether you do not know another debt was discharg'd by Mr. Willson, a hundred pound bill for Lawson?

Betham. I do not remember where the money came from; there was a bill discharg'd.

John Hines < no role > . I am post-master at Harwick; Mr. Lawson was at Harwick on Tuesday the 23th of November 1758, he came there on the evening between 7 and 8 o'clock, he staid there; he staid at my house till the 30th, and then went on board.

Q. How do you recollect it?

Hines. We book all that go on board to go out of the kingdom; he never was out of my house in that time.

Q. How do you know that it was the Mr. Lawson mentioned on the trial?

Hines. He begg'd to go up stairs, and seem'd to be terribly frighted; I said, what is the matter; he said his circumstances were so bad, he was forced to go over the water: I told him 3 packets had fail'd that morning, and another would go out on Thursday; he begg'd I would get him a pass; I got him one, being oblig'd to have a pass to go in a packet boat; then I got his name; he said it was John Lawson < no role > , and that he came from London.

Q. Did he say what business he was in?

Hines. No, he did not.

Q. Have you seen him since?

Hines. I have, and am sure it is the same man. When he stopp'd at my door, and came out of the chaise, that gentleman was with him ( pointing to Mr. Staples) and I challeng'd him as soon as he came out of the chaise.

John Staples < no role > . I have heard Mr. Hines give his evidence; the person that was at his door with me which he speaks of was Mr. John Lawson < no role > , the same person mentioned on this trial.

Q. Is he a bankrupt?

Staples. He is; I am one of the assignees.

Cross Examination.

Q. Is the bond satisfied?

Staples. I did.

Counsel. Then Mr. Fogg is no sufferer by it.

Staples. He is not.

Q. Has there not been some dispute concerning your being an assignee in the court of chancery?

Staples. Yes, there has.

Q. Whether there has not been a report made by the commissioners in the court of chancery, whether they have not reported you were indebted to Lawson, instead of Lawson being indebted to you?

Staples. When I was chosen assignee I was a creditor to him, but upon my being under-writer upon the ship I became debtor to him.

Prisoner's Defence.

About 4 years ago, Lawson had a great number of bills, and desired I would discount them for him; from the latter end of the year 1757, to November 1758, I discounted to the value of 8000 l. and upwards; I found drawers and indorsors were failed or failing: I apply'd to Mr. Lawson, and told him the situation things were in, and that it would be cruel to let those bills come upon me, as I had done all in my power to serve him; he said, he would make me a sufficient security, and sent Mr. Jackson < no role > an attorney to make an assignment to me of a ship call'd the Venus, and several other effects and debts, which were executed on the 20th of November; then I went to Mr. Higgs, and told him in whose hands there were 626 l. 11 s. and told him those bills were become bad, for most of them were broke or breaking; I told him, I had taken care to get a sufficiency from Mr. Lawson, and I would assign over to him this policy of insurance, and the ship's book, and bill of sale belonging to it, on condition he would advance me a farther sum of money; I told him the policy was wrote for 1350 l. and that in case the ship came home it would be of greater value, it would make 1600 l. I left that security with him, and said I must have the money made up 1000 l. I left them in his hands for a day or two; and if upon inquiry he found the secur ity was good, he would do according to my desire; I call'd upon him again, and ask'd him if he had made inquiry; he said, he had, and he had found my security good for 1000 l. but it was not quite convenient for him to advance so much money, but he would recommend me to a friend of his, he appointed me to meet him on the friday following at Mr. Fogg's warehouse, that was the 27th of November, I went there and saw Mr. Fogg; after we had been there a little while, Mr. Higgs sent for this gentleman, who had proposed to advance 1000 l. he show'd him this security, and Mr. Higgs had a policy broker along with him: he told me it was an undeniable security for 1000 l. as it was a very common thing to assign over policies for insurances; he said, he was very well satisfied, but that he had parted with a considerable sum of money a few days before, and it was not convenient for him to do it; so Mr. Higgs and I came away together; and as we walk'd together, Mr. Higgs said, as I had acted so honestly by him, in coming to him before the bills were due, he would serve me as far as in his power; he said, there was one bill among them, which he look'd upon to be a good bill, but there were 2 upon Tittley. and one upon Lawson, which he look'd upon to be bad, and those I must take up. I told him I was ready to take them all up, those amounted to 453 l. 1 s. this money he said he would make up 600 l. I told him that would be doing but very little, for the property he had sign'd over to him, and that money would not be sufficient to secure every body; he said he could go no farther, but perhaps in some future time he might advance some more money; he never mentioned a word to me to put 2 men on the policy in the room of 2 that fail'd; I said, if the ship comes home it will be several hundreds more; he said, I might do as I would about putting more upon it, as we agreed upon this; he said, Mr. Lawson might meet him; he says he never saw Lawson in his life, but that will be prov'd, he desired Lawson would meet him at the Baptist-head coffee house that evening: I sent for Mr. Lawson, and I, Mr. Lawson, Mr. Jackson, and Betham went all there on Monday the 27th in the afternoon: Mr. Higgs and Mr. Fogg talk'd to Mr. Lawson, and ask'd him about the security; he said, it was to inable me to take up bills that I had from him; Mr. Lawson, even then, had given directions for an assignment to be made to Mr. Higgs, with a blank left in it to be fill'd in; Mr. Higgs was very well satisfied with this; Mr. Fogg says my treaty was with him; my treaty was with Mr. Higgs; he appointed me to meet him at Hamlin's coffee-house, and said he should be ready; Mr. Higgs said, he should chuse to have this assignment made to Mr. Fogg; I told him, it would be very odd to make it to a person that I never had any concern with; then I said he should be engaged along with Mr. Fogg in a deseasance given to me, for I should not trust so considerable a sum in the hand of Mr. Fogg; for there would be at least 700 l coming to me from this assignment; accordingly Mr. Higgs and Mr. Fogg mentioned to go to some proper person to assign over this ship's policy and insurance to Mr. Fogg; I ask'd, if they approved of Mr. Hewit; they said yes, very well; Mr. Fogg went along with me there; I laid down all the papers, and gave directions to prepare an assignment to sign over to Mr. Fogg for 600 l. he was present and heard it; there was no mention of a bond in all the transactions; there was never mention made of a bond if it had not been for the proposal made by Mr. Hewit; I have been since told, it is customary with notaries to sign a bond with every thing; he said it would be ready in about an hour; we came again, when he had very near finished the assignment; he said he thought a joint bond should accompany it, and a receipt; I said, now you come to want a joint bond, now you have 1360 l. for 600. Mr. Hewit fill'd it up, and wrote a receipt at the bottom of the assignment, and I took it to Betham; he said he would go and find out Lawson, and get it sign'd, he know'd where he was. I desired him to be as speedy as possible, and in about half an hour he came and brings them sign'd to me as they are now, and I suppose by Lawson, for I see no reason to think the contrary. I carried it, and delivered it to Mr. Hewit, and he gave it to Mr. Higgs, and Mr. Higgs paid me. Immediately after receiving this 104 l. 19 s. I went to a person on Tower-hill, and paid him, and took up a bill of Lawson's; it will appear evident from hence I could have no intent whatever to defraud; I could have raised more money upon that security; I could have let Mr. Higgs have done what he would with his rotten and bad bills; I think this will show the highest mark of honesty in me, that I stuck to the assignment to take up the bills of the bankrupt.

A day or two after this I went to Mr. Higgs in Cheapside, with whom I discounted a Bill of Lawson's for upwards of one hundred pounds; to another man I discounted another of his bills for 125 l. the drawers and acceptors had so far failed, there was no probability of being paid; I told the creditors, I had made an assignment over to Mr. Higgs for 1300 l. to secure no more than 600; and I must leave other people unsecur'd, if I left so much in his hands; I told them, I would assign over to Mr. Higgs, for them to be paid after he was paid: Mr. Higgs told them it was a good security for 1000 l. and that they might very safely take 225 l. for at last it would be worth 1000 l. and recommended them to do so.

When I met Mr. Hodson and Mr. Maccauley, I ask'd them, if they had been with Mr. Higgs; they said, he told them the security in his hands was an undeniable security for 1000 l. I did not chuse to encumber-that security any farther, if I could help it. I went and told them I had two bonds, on which were due 303 l. and I would assign over those bonds to them: they said, they would do whatever I pleased, either take an assignment under Mr. Higgs for 125 l. more, or as I thought proper; and in a very little time after they receiv'd the money and paid themselves. I believe here will be another mark of my honestly, I could have receiv'd the money on those bonds in a very little time, and have put it in my own pocket, had I been so minded.

I contracted all this affair with as much uprightness as possible. In a little time after this, some other affairs of Mr. Lawson's came into my hands; I apply'd to Mr. Smith and attorney to get me some more money into my hands; Mr. Smith sent for Mr. Higgs, and ask'd for his security; he told him he might, that it was a very good security for more than 1000 l. this was 3 or 4 months after it was assign'd over to Mr. Higgs.

About 3 months after, a commission of bankruptcy was taken out against Lawson; Mr. Staples and Mr. Dingley were made assignees; they petition'd for me to deliver up all in my hands belonging to him, my debt was very near 2000 l. I prov'd it to be 1800 and odd; they petition'd to have all his effects out of my hands, but their petition was dismiss'd; after that they filed a bill against me; I put in a full answer to that; they never proceeded farther against me; they never mended nor paid cost. Some time after this, they brought another petition against me, praying I might deliver up all my effects upon the bankruptcy; my Lord Keeper directed I should deliver up nothing but what was assign'd; I had nothing to deliver. Some little time after this, upon looking over the state of Lawson's books, I found the assignees had proved much larger debts than were due to them. Mr. Dingley had proved a debt of 90 l. 15 s. and his debt was only 50 l. 15 s. Mr. Staples swore a debt of 39 l. 15 s. and he at the same time was debtor 58 l. and upwards. This I acquainted the rest of the creditors with; they readily join'd in a petition to have me remov'd. My Lord Keeper, upon hearing this petition, directed it back to the commissioners, to examine and report the matter, as it should appear to them.

Upon which, they had several meetings to settle what was really due to Dingley and Staples. Those assignees apprehending I was at the bottom of this discovery, they strove to harrass and perplex me; they then immediately apply'd to Mr. Higgs, to get these securities out of his hands; they found there was a bond, and that they pretend is a forg'd bond of Lawson's, tho' unknown to me to be such; perhaps Mr. Betham might think he had a right to do it, for he wou'd have sign'd 20 bonds at any time upon requesting it; for even at the time we met at the coffee-house, he was ready to sign any thing for my security that I desir'd.

They very judiciously obtain'd those securities, my property, by paying 600 l. they possess themselves of 1360 l. they have two ends to serve in this.

First, by getting my property out of my hands, and then to answer their malicious, envious purposes, to commence a criminal prosecution against me.

I think to defraud Mr. Fogg is impossible, he had no property in it; and to defraud Mr. Higgs, that cannot be, for he had more than a double security, that could not fail, it was good at that time, and good ever since, good this moment, it wou'd have been receiv'd many months ago, if the assignees had not hindred the payment of it.

And Lawson is past a possibility of being defrauded, for that was to pay Lawson's bills.

To put it upon the worst footing possible, suppose there had been no security at all, and those bills came back to Lawson to pay, because he was paying no more than a debt he really owed; he was paying for taking up his own bills; for the very debt in Mr. Higg's hands was his own debt, I did not get one six-penny piece, or farthing by it; I am as innocent of any defraud as any man can be; I could have raised money upon them, had it been my inclination. I have spent out of my own pocket more than 300 l. occasioned by the litigious suits that the assignees have been setting up against me, in order that the owners of the bills may not be sufferers. I have taken the utmost pains and assiduity to see justice done; and am so far from being benefited, that I am extremely injur'd; it has taken up all my time for almost 12 months together, to look after those litigious suits.

I have obtain'd my Lord Keeper's opinion, his Lordship looks upon it I have acted right. Notwithstanding the assignees have gone and got my money out of my hands, on purpose to get a prosecution against me, I hope, upon the whole, from the nature of this case, and the circumstances attending it, that the security I gave Mr. Fogg and Mr. Higgs was more than a double security, that the whole of this transaction has been fair and upright on my part; I have not converted one single shilling to my own use; I think I have put it out of my power to commit a fraud; and if so, I hope nothing of that sort can be imputed to me; I solemnly declare, I had no such intention, I am as innocent of such a design as any man can; and therefore most humbly submit my case to the great justice of your Lordships, and this honourable Court.

For the prisoner.

Samuel Jackson < no role > . I remember, on the 19th of November, 1758, I was sent for to come to the Feathers tavern, Cheapside, there was Mr. Lawson and Mr. Betham; Mr. Lawson himself propos'd to me, and desir'd me to draw up an assignment; he said, Mr. Willson had indorsed and discounted a great many bills for him, and he wanted first of all to secure him. I was apprehensive, whether there was not some bankruptcy in view or intended; but upon the strictest examination I could make, I could not find it; it did not appear to me that there was any danger; he said, the whole amounted to about 2000 l. and I was to make an assignment of such and such things to him, the ship Venus, and some part of other ships, some bonds, and some other deeds, to the amount of 3000 l. he said, it was to indemnify him against those bills which he had indorsed, and the remainder of it was to go to Lawson.

Q. Can you produce this assignment?

Jackson. No, I cannot, they would have the assignment executed that night, but I had not a schedule of the particular effects to be assign'd, it was appointed to be executed on the friday morning. I drew part of the draught, and got prepar'd the stamps for it; the next day Mr. Willson's maid desir'd I would call upon him in the afternoon; I went, it was approv'd and executed on the friday morning about 9 o'clock; to me nothing appear'd fairer.

Q. Was any deseasance executed to return the overplus money?

Jackson. yes, that was sign'd afterwards.

Q. Where was this?

Jackson. This was at the Baptist-head coffee-house.

Q. Who were present?

Jackson. There were Lawson, Willson and Betham, and a gentleman that has been examined here, but I don't know whether his name is Higgs or Fogg. I think he came and sat down where we were, Lawson had given me instructions to prepare a re-assignment, and leave a blank for the name.

Q. Was any thing mentioned about a bond then?

Jackson. No; there was not on one side nor the other.

Q. Do you apprehend, if a bond had been proposed, Lawson would have objected to it?

Jackson. No, Sir, I believe not at all, I had instructions from him to prepare any thing that was proper?

Q. From the nature of the whole transaction, did you apprehend, that this money to have been raised, was to discharge Lawson's debts, or not?

Jackson. Yes, it was Lawson told me so himself.

Q. At the time Lawson said he would authorise you to do any thing towards making him secure, was Betham there?

Jackson. He was.

Thomas Hodson < no role > . I had one of those bills drawn by one of the Tittley's; indorsed by Willson and Lawson; the drawer breaking it was suspicious, the whole clan of them broke soon after Tittley of London broke; Mr. Lawson told me, I might be very easy about the bill, for he had sufficient to pay every body; he would take it up before it was due; but contrary to that he disappeared; Mr. Willson call'd upon me after that, and said I might be very easy about that bill, for Mr. Lawson had given him authority to pay all the bills; he proposed to me to take an assignment under Mr. Higgs about the ship Venus; I went to Mr. Higgs; he told me, he believed it was still sufficient to pay 4 or 500 l. more, but he must be paid first; said I, will you undertake to pay me after you are paid; he said, I must return the money; I am as willing to pay it to you as to any body; Mr. Willson said, he had other bills, and no man should be a loser; he proposed the signing bonds to me, and another gentleman, Mr. Maccauley, for another bill of Lawson's, drawn by Lawson's clerk in his own comping-house, in the name of Robson; he proposed upon the whole a security upon a captain of a Jamaica ship, which we took, and returned the surplus of the money to him.

Q. How do you know that Mr. Bethem drew < no role > that bill?

Hodson. Mr. Betham acknowledg'd it in my hearing.

Q. How long had you known Mr. Willson?

Hudson. I never knew him before that transaction; I can't say I ever heard of him before.

Cross Examination.

Q. Did not you say you was very sorry that you should apply in behalf of so bad a man; upon what did you found your opinion?

Hudson. I imagain'd there could not be so much money due to him as he made out.

Q. Whether there is not an intention to defraud, in your opinion, if, in 2 securities, one is a good one, and the other a false one?

Hudson. If one is a good one, I think not.

Margaret Wheeler < no role > . I lived with Mr. Willson before the year 1759.

Q. How long did you live with him?

Margaret Wheeler < no role > . I lived with him a year and a quarter.

Q. Do you remember Lawson's coming there?

M. Wheeler. I do, he did pretty often, to have him raise money; and I have seen Mr. Willson pay large sums of money to Lawson. I have heard Mr. Lawson say, Mr. Willson was the best friend he ever had in his life.

Q. Have you ever heard Mr. Lawson say any thing about Mr. Betham?

M. Wheeler. I have heard Mr. Lawson say, if any thing is wanted, go down to Mr. Betham his clerk at the compting-house, and he could do any thing the same as himself; I have heard him say, any thing that Mr. Betham did he would stand to.

Q. What in signing of bills?

M. Wheeler. No.

Q. Did you ever see Betham write Lawson's name?

M. Wheeler. I have seen the name Lawson wrote several times over lying about like waste-paper, but I did not know the meaning of it, I do not know what he did it for.

John Brine < no role > . I know Mr. Lawson; Mr. Betham was his clerk before I knew him; I ask'd Betham whether he had any authority to sign Mr. Lawson's name in his absence; he told me yes; and that Mr. Lawson must have broke 9 months ago, if it had not been for Mr. Willson; he said likewise, he thought Mr. Willson had no design of any defraud.

William Adams < no role > . I have known Mr. Willson upwards of 4 years; I think he told me he was a wholesale dealer in hardware, but I never had any transactions in that branch with him.

Q. What character did he bare?

Adams. I thought him a very honest man; he has assisted me with a great many thousands of pounds in money; I did business for gentlemen out of the country, and had bills out of the country, and I have apply'd to him, and he has got them done for me; he has had of me to the amount of 2 thousand pounds in effects, and has always accounted with me very fairly.

Q. Would you trust him now the same?

Adams. I have no reason to think to the contrary of that of an honest man.

Joseph Lessley < no role > . I have known Mr. Willson 11 or 12 years; I have sold him goods, once to the amount of 300 l. I never lost a shilling by him, he paid me duly and honestly; I do not think he would be guilty of defrauding any person.

Cross Examination.

Q. Do you mean, whatever evidence there is of the matter it is not to be believed?

Lessley. I do not believe he would be guilty with intention to defraud any body.

Q. to Jackson. What is the prisoner's character?

Jackson. I have seen nothing of him but what has been very fair, and very honest.

Q. How long have you known him?

Jackson. I have known him about 4 or 5 years.

The bond read, in the common form on the penalty of 1200 l. for the payment of 600 l. dated 29 November 1758, witnessed by John Betham < no role > . Acquit.

He was a second time indicted for forging and publishing a receipt for the payment of 1500 l. with intention to defraud Thomas Fogg < no role > , no evidence given.

Acquitted .