547. WILLIAM JONES proceedingsdefend was indicted for stealing, on the 9th of May , a silk handkerchief, value 2 s. the property of John James proceedingsvictim , privately from his person .

(The case opened by Mr. Manley.)

(The short-hand writer was desired by Mr. Garrow, prisoner's counsel, to take particular notice, and observe the witnesses being sworn.)

JOHN JAMES < no role > sworn.

Did you lose any thing on the 9th of May last? - Yes.

What time of day was it? - About six in the evening, on Clerkenwell-green , I lost a silk handkerchief.

Where was the handkerchief before you lost it? - In my pocket.

How long before you lost it, had you seen it? - Why I cannot say, but within a quarter of an hour, I am quite sure it was in my coat pocket.

In what manner did you lose your handkerchief? - I cannot say.

In short do you know you lost it? - No.

However it was gone? - Yes.

Gone from your person? - Yes.

When did you get it again? - After I had lost it, I was going along the bottom of the green, a man calls out, Sir, Sir, you in the blue coat; I felt in my pocket; says he, have you lost any thing? I said, no my friend, I believe not, and I put my hand in my pocket, and said yes, I have lost a silk handkerchief; says he, that man has got it; the prisoner was running, and he pointed to him; I suppose the prisoner was about ten or fifteen yards from me; I went up to him, and accused him with it, and he denied it, I searched him, I did not find it; the man that called after me, said he was sure he had it; I searched him again, and found it in a pocket in his bosom within his coat; this is the handkerchief that I lost, and the handkerchief that I found upon him; I swear positively to it; it is marked with an H. and W.

How comes it not to be marked with your initials? - I bought it as it was; but I am perfectly sure it is my handkerchief.

What is the value of that handkerchief? - I gave four shillings it.

What value did you put upon it? - Two shillings.

How long before this did you give four shillings for it? - About two months before.

Did any thing more pass? did the prisoner say any thing? - He denied it; I said I found it upon you, I will take you to the Magistrates.

Court. What is the mark on your handkerchief? - W. and H.

What is the name of the constable? - Philip Bristow < no role > .

Is he here? - I do not know.

What did the prisoner say? - He was very impudent to the Magistrate.

Mr. Garrow, Prisoner's counsel He was very impudent to the Magistrates? - Yes.

Turn yourself about, that these gentlemen may see you; he was very impudent to the Magistrates? - Yes.

I have no objection to hear some of his impudence; be so good as to state some of it? - He said, says he, I have not stole your handkerchief, but if I have, I shall get through it, because I am a soldier ; he said that he belonged to the Staffordshire militia.

So this happened as you was walking along Clerkenwell-green? - Yes.

Where was you going to? - To spend the evening at the Adam and Eve at Pancrass, where I generally go of an evening.

Alone, I suppose? - Yes.

You do not usually spend your evenings there alone? - No.

Who was to meet you there? - I did not go to meet any body, nor had promised to meet any body.

Any company that might fall in your way? - Yes.

So as you was going along, a man called after you, and said, Sir, Sir, a man has picked your pocket? - He said, Sir, Sir, you in the blue coat, have you lost any thing?

Mr. Manley. Had you a buff waistcoat on? - No, Sir.

Mr. Garrow. Have you learned since who that man was that called on you? - Yes.

Who was he? - I believe he calls himself Coleman.

Now what do you think of his name being Caldwell? - Coleman or Caldwell.

But he was an entire stranger to you? - Yes.

You had never seen him before in your life? - I cannot say but I have seen him, but never to speak to him; as I may say I have seen you, but I do not know to my knowledge.

I do believe you have very often, and I am sure your friend Mr. Caldwell has very often? - I do not know to my knowledge.

Upon your oath, have you never seen him before? - I cannot swear that I have not.

Will you swear you have never conversed with him before? - Yes.

You have never been in his company? - To my knowledge I never have.

(The question repeated) - To my knowledge I never have, I will not swear it.

Now Mr. James, be like you may know a man of the name of Jones? - Jones, why I do not say but I might know.

William Jones < no role > ? - I do not to my knowledge.

That is the prisoner William Jones < no role > ; now what think you of Mr. William Jordan < no role > of Bilstone? - I do not know such a man; upon my oath I have not been at Bilstone a great many years; I served my apprenticeship there.

You never did know him? - No, Sir.

Have you lately, before this transaction, had any conversation with any body, about Mr. Jordan of Bilstone? - No, Sir.

Not a word? - No, Sir.

You did not know Mr. Caldwell before? - Not to my knowledge; there was another gentleman with Mr. Caldwell, Mr. Ashurst; I did not see any other man.

Do you know Mr. Ashurst? - I never saw him before in my life, to my knowledge.

These people have no connection with Staffordshire? - Not that I know of; I have had no talk with them about Caldwell.

About Bilstone, or Jordan of Bilstone, or Mr. Ashurst? - No, Sir, positively.

Do you know any thing of the prisoner beside this? - No, Sir, I never saw the man in my life before.

You know nothing of him at all? - No.

You know nothing of any connections he has in Staffordshire? - No, Sir.

Have you heard from any body whether this man the prisoner has been lately in Staffordshire? - No, Sir.

Not from any body? - No, Sir.

Then you have not heard that he is a witness against certain persons for a felony? - No, Sir.

And Mr. Jordan among the rest? - No, Sir.

Now what are you? - I am a buckle chape maker ; I live in West Harding-street in the city.

Whereabouts is West Harding-street? - It is very close to New-street, Gough-square.

How often have you been at Newgate? - I cannot say.

How often within the last five or six months? - I cannot say.

How many men may you have been to visit in Newgate upon different occasions? - God knows; I do not know; you may know better than me; I went to see one Wheeler and one Bridgens, he was there for coining I believe.

Now name one or two more of your frieds? - No more to my knowledge.

Upon your oath, have you been to visit nobody else? - No, Sir.

Am I to take that down from you? - Within these twelve months do you mean?

No, Sir; I am enquiring into the iniquity of your life; who else have you been to visit there? - Nobody else.

Do you swear that positively? - To my knowledge I have not.

Will you swear you have visited nobody else? - Will I swear it?

Upon your oath, have not you been at Newgate before either of them were in custody? - Yes, Sir.

To visit whom? - To visit one Ned Griffiths < no role > .

When was he there? - A twelve-month last March.

What was Ned? - He was a smith.

But occasionally used to amuse himself with making the King's coin? - I know nothing of that.

Do not you know what he was in custody for? - No, Sir; I have heard he was in custody for robbing one Captain Ogden in Gray's-inn-lane.

So Ned got into limbo, and he was convicted, and you used to visit him? - No, Sir; I did not visit him, I went to see him once.

What might carry you there? - To see him.

To see a great man in distress? - No, he was a little man.

Did you never go to Newgate before Ned Griffiths < no role > was in custody? - I cannot say; I never keep things in my head two or three years.

But you must recollect yourself a little; tell us one or two of your friends that were in custody before Ned? - I cannot say; I cannot recollect any more; I cannot say I ever was in Newgate before he was in custody; I will not swear it.

Perhaps you may have been in custody yourself? - Well, Sir.

Do you dare to give me that answer; have you upon your oath, or not? - Yes, Sir.

When Sir? - At the time that Griffiths was taken up.

And yet you have so bad a memory, that you do not know whether you was in Newgate before? - I was in Tothill-fields Bridewell, on suspicion of robbing Captain Ogden.

Perhaps you was tried for it? - As soon as Captain Ogden came to see me, he knew me; I paid his company six years in the Middlesex; and he went round to satisfy the Justice, that I was not one of them that robbed him; but I used to use the publick house hard by Gray's-inn-lane that Ned Griffiths < no role > used; Captain Ogden convincedthe Magistrate that I was not one of them that robbed him; I suppose I was in custody eight or nine days.

Was that the only time you have been in custody? - Yes.

Where was the publick house that your friend used? - I believe it was at the bottom of Fox-court.

Was it not in the very court in which Captain Ogden was robbed, was not there a back door into that court? - I was informed Captain Ogden was robbed in Bell court.

Was not there a back door out of your friend's house into the court where the Captain was robbed? - No, Sir; there is a back door comes into Bell-court, I was informed it was Charlotte-buildings.

Upon your oath, did not you say he was robbed in Bell-court? - I said, I did not know where he was robbed.

Had your friend a back door into Bell-court? - Yes, there was.

Have you ever gone out of that back door in your life? - Yes, Sir.

How lately before the Captain was robbed; how many minutes? - Not that night, I am sure of it.

You do not know Mr. Jordan? - No, Sir; not to my knowledge.

Will you dare to swear you do not know him perfectly? - Yes, I dare swear I do not know him perfectly; I never saw him; never was in company with him; never conversed with him; I do not know that he is in London.

Do not you believe that he is in one of the galleries? - I do not believe it, and I do not know it.

I do not ask you whether you know it; upon your oath do you, or do you not believe that he is in Court? - I do not know the man; he may be the man, or he may not; I do not know there is such a man in the world; positively I do not.

Do you know any such man or not; do you positively know any such man as William Jordan < no role > of Bilstone, in the county of Stafford? - I do not.

Do you now swear positively that you do not know any such man? - Yes, Sir.

You have had no conversation with any man about him? - No, Sir.

Neither with Mr. Caldwell nor Mr. Ashurst, nor any man, about a man of the name of Jordan? - No, Sir.

Perhaps you may know a man of the name of Pearson? - Pearson, I served my time with Harry Pearson < no role > .

Do you know such a man as John Pearson < no role > ? - I did, but he may be dead; it was many years ago.

How lately may you have had any correspondence with him? - I do believe he has been dead these six or seven years.

But with John? - He may be dead for what I know; I have had no correspondence with a man of the name of Pearson lately; Mr. Pearson is an agent to a man of the name of Jordan; Mr. Pearson is a little relation to me; I believe he is either my uncle or my cousin.

Which of these do you really believe he is? - They tell me he was my mother's brother; I left home when I was very young.

Pray now what relation may Mr. Pearson be to Mr. Jordan? - I do not know; I never heard they were relations.

You was a buckle-maker when you was in that trouble? - What trouble?

Captain Ogden's trouble? - Yes.

How often have you been a witness before? - Never, Sir; I never was in such a court as this before in my life, nor no other, to give evidence or be evidence.

Only to listen and get a lesson? - No, nor to get a lesson.

Where might you purchase that handkerchief? - I bought it in Fleet-lane.

Why man, upon your oath, have you never been a witness for any person accused of coining? - Never, Sir; that I positively swear.

Was any body with you when you bought this handkerchief? - No, Sir; I gave four shillings for it; it is almost new.

Pray did Mr. Caldwell or Mr. Ashurst meet you at this time that you was robbed, or did they overtake you? - I never saw Ashurst to my knowledge, only before the Justice.

Did Caldwell meet you, or did he overtake you? - He was behind me, he called after me.

Upon your oath, had not you been in company with Caldwell that very morning? - Upon my oath I had not.

Are you a married man? - Yes.

Who had been in your company at home that morning? - My wife.

Nobody else? - Nobody but a servant.

You keep a servant or two? - Only one servant girl.

And you saw nobody that morning to converse with, but your wife and servant? - No, Sir.

Nor the night before? - Not to my knowledge; I believe I spent my evening at the Fleece in Gough-square; I was going from the Fleece at that time, to the Adam and Eve at Pancrass; not by any particular appointment, merely for a walk, and to spend my evening.

Any tobacco or any thing of that sort in your pocket that was particular? - Nothing but my gloves and my handkerchief.

Had you observed the handkerchief particularly? - No, Sir; I did not think any thing about it.

Did you see any body with the prisoner at that time? - No; upon my oath I did not.

Did either Mr. Ashurst or Mr. Caldwell touch him before you saw the handkerchief? - No, Sir.

Now I will ask you upon your oath, did not you put your own handkerchief into the man's bosom, for the sake of drawing it out? - Upon my oath I did not.

Look at your own attorney, and answer the question if you dare? - Upon my oath I did not.

Who is your attorney? - That gentleman.

Who is he? - I never saw the man before last Tuesday in my life.

Where did you pick him up last Tuesday? - I was going to Epsom races, and I stopped at the Admiralty Coffee-house, Charing-cross, and I saw that gentleman there; I was talking about it to a friend that was with me, and this gentleman said he was an attorney; and I said I knew no attorney; and he said he would do my business for me.

So you engaged this attorney at the Admiralty Coffee-house; now tell us his name? - He informed me his name was Ashfield; he said he lived at the Coffee-house.

How often may you have met him? - I did not come from Epsom till Friday morning; then I called at the Coffee-house and saw him.

Did you know him at all before? - No, Sir.

Was Caldwell with you? - No, Sir.

You state, that by mere accident you fell into the hands of this attorney; then he never was a Worcestershire or Staffordshire attorney? - No.

So Mr. Ogden's matter was the only time you was ever in trouble about? - Yes, Sir.

Now just look round the Court, and repeat that answer upon your oath; was you never in custody except for Captain Ogden's business? - No, Sir; excepting debt.

Whose custody was you in for debt? - I was in the Poultry-compter; I suppose it is four years ago.

Do you know Townsend? - I have seen the man before.

I think you have; where did you get acquainted with him? - I have seen him about Covent-garden.

And that is all? - Yes.

Do you mean me to take that as your answer? - Yes, that is the only acquaintance I have with him; no correspondence, no dealings with him.

Then I dare say you will venture to swear, that you never was in his custody in your life for a foot pad robbery? - Never in my life.

Positively? - No, Sir.

Nor upon the suspicion of a foot padrobbery? - Never; nor upon any other charge whatever.

Mr. JOHN CALDWELL < no role > sworn.

I was going across Clerkenwell green; I think it was Wednesday the 9th of May; and I think I saw this gentleman, who calls himself James, going before me; whether it was for fashion sake, or what it was, I do not know; but he had a red and white silk handkerchief hanging out of his pocket, and the prisoner snatched it by the corner out of his pocket, and the prisoner clapped it to his left side in his coat; I called to this Mr. James, and said, Sir, Sir; have you lost any thing? why no, says he, not to my knowledge; and he felt, yes says he, I have lost a handkerchief; says I, this is the man that has got it; I suppose there were twenty people by that saw me.

Did you search the man? - I saw Mr. James search him, and he took the handkerchief from his side pocket; I saw James put in his hand and take it out of his pocket; and I saw the prisoner before take the handkerchief out of James's pocket, or else I will suffer death; I know the consequence of an oath.

Who are you? - I am a distressed person at present; I have been a person possessed of property; a chief magistrate of this city knows who I am; he knows me very well if he is here; I was born within a few yards where he lives.

Are you sure you saw his hand, when he was putting it in his pocket? - I will not positively say that; at the Rotation Office they asked me if I knew the handkerchief? I said, it was very hard to swear to the handkerchief, but I believed it was the handkerchief; the prisoner said before the magistrate, he was not come there to be made a fool off, he could hang folks if he chose it; the Justice said he did not doubt it, because many of them sort of folks could hang one another if they liked it; Justice Girdler got up and asked him, he said he had an uncle at Billston, who was a man of property; he asked him after three or four different people, but he could give no account of either of them.

Mr. Garrow. You live in London? - I do.

And have done for some time past? - Yes.

You thought this a new fashion to carry the handkerchief in this manner? - Mr. Garrow, The way I know you, you was employed in an affair of Colonel Keyton < no role > ; you took my part then.

So you was going along quite accidentally? - Yes; as I do very often across the green.

You knew Mr. James a little before? - No, Sir, I never did, nor never met him any where; my character is as fair, and as clear as your's Sir.

So you was going on accidentally? - Yes.

You know nothing of Mr. James? - No.

Do you know Mr. John Ashurst < no role > ? - No, I never saw him before, so help me God.

Nor Mr. Ashfield? - I know the gentleman now.

Did not you know this gentleman. Mr. Ashfield? - I know him I no, I did not.

You had no acquaintance with him? - No, I rather believe he was employed as an attorney in our business.

If it is not an impertinent question, what country-man may you be? - Born in London.

Ever been in Staffordshire? - No, Sir.

Nor in Worcestershire? - I served seven years in the city of Worcester.

Then you was vastly glad of having an opportunity of saving a handkerchief for a countryman? - I knew nothing of him, I served my time in Worcester.

I dare say you knew Mr. Freeman the attorney? - No, Sir, I did not.

Never heard of his name? - I have heard of his name.

But you never heard of Ashfield? - The first time I saw him, was when we went to find the bill on this business.

You said just now, that you was a distressedman? - Yes, I have been a man that have been possessed of a deal of property, I have run through it, and I have had an accident to put my arm out.

Where do you live? - In Mutton-lane.

You have lived there some time probably? - Yes.

How far is that from Field lane? - Why it is only the length of Saffron-hill?

Now do you know that handkerchief? - Why I would not swear positively to it.

You never saw it till you saw it hang out of the gentleman's pocket for fashion sake? - No; what profit or pleasure can I have to say that this man took the handkerchief out of this man's pocket?

I will tell you, it is to prevent his giving evidence against your friend Mr. Jordan in Staffordshire.

Do you know Billstone? - I never was there in my life.

You never heard of such a place? - Yes, I have heard of such a place.

May be you may have heard of Mr. Jordan who lives there? - I never did indeed.

Do you know a man of the name of Pearson? - No.

Has it never happened to you to have heard in conversation that it was a lucky thing that this sad dog was taken, because he was going to swear away the liberty of this Mr. Jordan of Billstone? - I do not, so help me God, nor against any other persons, nor never heard such a thing.

Have not you been acquainted with Mr. James for three or four months? - I never was acquainted with him before; I have seen him by coming to the Coach and Horses, in Mutton-lane, that I used.

You have been in the army I take it? - I have.

Mr. Egerton is what they call a crimp in the East India Company? - You may as well say a kidnapper.

That was the first time you saw Mr. James? - I never saw him above three times there in my life.

Was the last time you saw him a week, or three weeks before the time he had his pocket picked? - I think I saw him about a week before.

Who were the people that he supped with that evening? - I do not know that he ever supped in the house in his life.

Who did he drink with? - I do not know.

Had not you a drop with him? - I never drank with him till after this affair happened.

Who was his company at the kidnapper the last time he was there before he had his pocket pricked? - He had no company, he was there alone.

What country man is your landlord? - I do not know, I believe he is Worcester.

What way of life did you understand this Mr. James was in? - I did not ask him, I understood his name was James.

That was all you knew about him? - Yes; I said, Sir, Sir, have you lost any thing?

When he said he had not, you said yes, you have Mr. James, you have lost your handkerchief? - I did not say Mr. James, I did not know his name was James, I told you that I had seen him two or three times.

Then you have forgot what you said a minute ago, that you saw him take the handkerchief from Mr. James? - I did.

Do not you know that that puts an end to the capital part of this charge; why he will not be hanged; are you sure you saw him take it, or did you see it in his hand after he did take it? - I saw him as I told you before, snap it out.

Have you never been in Ashurst's company before? - Upon my oath, I have never been in his company before, I swear it positively.

You never drank with him of course? - Never in my life.

You do not know Mr. Jordan of Bilstone? - I do not indeed.

The Remainder of this Trial in the next Part, which will be published in a few Days.

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE KING's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery for the CITY of LONDON; AND ALSO The Gaol Delivery for the County of Middlesex, HELD AT JUSTICE HALL in the OLD BAILEY, On Wednesday the 23d of MAY, 1787, and the following Days;

Being the FIFTH SESSION in the Mayoralty of The Right Honourable Thomas Sainsbury < no role > , LORD MAYOR OF THE CITY OF LONDON.

TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND BY E. HODGSON, PROFESSOR OF SHORT-HAND; And Published by Authority,

NUMBER V. < no role > PART VII.

LONDON:

Printed for E. HODGSON (the Proprietor) And Sold by J. WALMSLAY, No. 35, Chancery Lane, and S. BLADON, No. 13, Pater-noster Row,

MDCCLXXXVII.

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS UPON THE

KING's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery for the CITY of LONDON, &c.

Continuation of the Trial of William Jones < no role > .

Perhaps you may know Mr. Pearson? - I do not

You told us of being in the army? - I have.

That is probably not the only profession you have been in, in your life, since you was a distressed man? - I have been a glover, and worked at my trade; I get my bread now by writing; I can write as well as any gentleman in the Court.

Perhaps you may have written the brief upon this occasion? - No, Sir, I did not.

Who was you clerk to as an attorney? - I do not tell you I was clerk to any attorney, I never wrote for any attorney.

Did you ever write for Mr. Waling, he is dead? - Yes, and what I wrote for him I was paid for.

How many years did you write for him? - I do not know, I have wrote for different people.

Name a few of them? - I have wrote for that gentleman that put up for coroner of this hall, I forget his name, he is an attorney in the Court of Exchequer.

Oh, Mr. Gosnell, that was clerk to Mr. Priddle! Did you write for him before or after he left Mr. Priddle? - I know nothing of Priddle, I only did three or four bills.

Do not you know Freeman? - I do not know him if I see him.

Have you never made any affidavit in the Court of King's Bench for Priddle, or Freeman or Ashfield? - Never in my life; I never saw him at the Admiralty coffee house.

Do you mean to swear positively that to this hour you never learned that this man had been at Staffordshire, or Worcestershire, and that he was to be a witness at the next assizes? - Upon my oath I never did hear it.

Neither from James, nor Ashurst, nor Pearson, nor Jordan, nor any other whatever? did you ever hear this prisoner was to be an evidence against Jordan, in Staffordshire? - No, Sir, I did not.

Have you never been in custody in your life? - Never indeed.

Did you go to Egerton's house after this thing happened? - No, Sir, never;Yes, I have drank with James since this affair happened.

Very often? - No, he came when he was going from the Bell, and I believe we drank together than.

Was Ashurst with you then? - No.

Did you express yourself in some such way as this: well, we have done Jones at last? - No, Sir, I should be very sorry to say so.

Upon your oath, have you never said in conversation in Egerton's house, we have done Jones? - No, never, Sir.

Did you never say we shall now be rid of him? - No, Sir, never.

You have never said either we shall do Jones, we shall get rid of him, he will be hanged, or any thing of that sort? - No, I never did.

What militia was you in? - I was serjeant and clerk in the eighty-eighth regiment of foot.

Did you know James when you was in the army? - I did not indeed.

- ASHURST sworn.

I was going about my master's business about three weeks ago, I did not take notice of the day of the month, and I heard the last witness call out Sir, Sir, have you lost any thing? Mr. James looked round, and said, no, but putting his hand in his pocket, he said he had lost his handkerchief; the last witness said, this man has your handkerchief; Mr. James said, have you my handkerchief? and he denied it, and he felt in his pocket once or twice, and he did not find it, however, he put his hand into a side pocket, and pulled out a silk handkerchief; Mr. James took him to the Justice's, and I was there; upon his positive denial of the fact, the question was put to me, whether I did see Mr. James take the handkerchief out or not, I said I did; there was another gentleman offered to give his evidence on the same thing; the Justice said he was very well satisfied, and that my evidence would not have been required if he had not denied it; Mr. James was a perfect stranger to me before this, and his character was very much spoken against; I have enquired into it, and all that I hear is, that he is a very honest gentleman, and there is one man that takes on himself to swear that he was at the place at the time, and saw Mr. James put the handkerchief in the man's pocket; I am sure there never was so great a falsity; he said he thought it was a joke; after a few more words, he said he heard they were gone to the Justice's, and he was so struck that he could not go down, and that is the sum of what I have to say of the matter.

Mr. Garrow. Mr. James was an entire stranger to you? - Yes.

But you have enquired into his character, and you found he was a very honest character? - I never enquired into his character till I heard he was a great rogue; I found it a very good one as far as I know.

Did any of the people you enquired of tell you that he had been in the strong place, Newgate? - I have heard it intimated that he had been concerned with persons that have been hanged, since I have been at the door.

So you have heard this lately? - Yes.

Did any of these people tell you that he has been in custody for a robbery on Mr. Ogden? - No, Sir.

Did you know the Fooman in waiting, in Gray's-inn-lane? - No, Sir.

You do not know such a house, upon your oath? - No, I do not.

In Bell-court, or in Fox court? - No, I do not.

Do you know such a house in Feather's-court? - I came from the city of York; I am not ashamed of my country.

Was you acquainted with Caldwell at the time the robbery was committed; have you no connections with Worcestershire, or Staffordshire? - I have heard tell of these places, I have not heard of Freeman; James is a stranger to me, and I to him, before this happened.

What way of life may you be in? - I am a linen varnisher, such as they cover umbrella's with.

Perhaps you know Mr. Kegan? - No.

Did you never work for him in the preparing a balloon? - Upon my oath I never worked for any one in that branch, but Mr. John Middleton < no role > .

Who did you work for lately? - Mr. Middleton, in St. Martin's-lane, Charing-cross, I have worked for him since last Christmas was a twelvemonth.

What other business have you been in? - I was a hair-dresser with John Ledwood < no role > , Little St. Andrew's-street, Seven-dials.

Do you know Mr. Jordan, of Billstone, in Staffordshire? - No, Sir, I do not know Staffordshire, nor Billstone, nor Worcestershire.

Have you had any friends in Newgate lately? - I never was in any part of Newgate, unless this is called Newgate.

Do you know Mr. Jordan of Billstone, or a Mr. Pearson, or any body connected with him? - No, Sir, I think he said he came the day before from Birmingham.

Did not he tell you that Mr. Jordan, of Billstone, took him home, and made him drunk, put him to bed, gave him a new suit of clothes, and sent him to London? - I did not hear him say so.

Upon your oath you did not? - Upon my oath I did not.

Upon your oath, do not you know the fact to be so, that Mrs. Jordan sent this man to London, that he might not be a witness against her husband? - I know nothing about it, I never in my life heard so.

If I understand you right, this man said, Mr. James, I have not got your handkerchief? - He did.

James insisted upon it, then he said Mr. James again, I have not got it? - He did not call him by his name that I know of, if I said so, I was mistaken; I asked about his character of the gentleman where he was employed: I said that hearing a very bad character of Mr. James, I had enquired into it, and found he bore a very good character as a very honest man.

(Mr. Ashfield ordered out of Court.)

Court. Now remember you are upon oath, and do not get yourself into a scrape for any body, speak out the whole truth.

(James sent out of Court at another door.)

I will speak the truth as far as I can recollect, a gentleman came to me on either Wednesday or Thursday where I work, he was a stranger, that is the gentleman that stands up, the minister of Billstone, and a conversation took place between him and me; he said it was a piece of iniquitous business, and he said he thought Mr. James would be afraid to appear in Court; and upon that supposition I enquired of Ashfield with respect to James, and he said that James was a gentleman; and further than that, I heard the woman at the public house opposite to Hicks's Hall say she had known him for fourteen years; and as far as I understood he was what we call a gentleman.

What did Ashfield teld you respecting the prisoner? - I cannot positively swear, I wish to be cautious, but I think Mr. Ashfield said (on account of the gentleman's asking) that the prisoner was concerned in a trial in the country, and I spoke to Mr. Ashfield about it, and I think he told me he had been concerned in a robbery with people there, stealing lead off a house, and he turned informer, and so he supposed they wished to have him back to give his evidence; that is nothing but the truth.

Mr. Garrow. Did Mr. Ashfield tell you who it was that was charged as a receiver of that stolen lead? - No; that was all the conversation I recollect we had about it.

Who did he tell you he supposed wished to have him back to give his evidence? - He did not say who.

Did he tell you that there was a person charged as a receiver in that business too? No.

Now what did he say more, that if he gets back again, he will hang some, andtransport the others? - He did not say that.

What did he say would be the consequence of his going back? - He told me no further than what I have related that I recollect.

What did he tell you would be the consequence if this man escaped? - He never told me any thing that would be of consequence.

Did not he tell you that he wished to convict him of felony, did not he say it would be a sad thing if he should get back again to give his evidence? - No Sir.

Or that he hoped he would not? - No, he never said any thing about it positively, he never related any thing to me about the matter.

Did not he tell you what would happen? - No.

Did not he name to you a man of the name of Jordan? - Not that I recollect.

Will you venture to swear that he did not mention the name of Jordan? - I do not remember it.

Do you swear that positively? - I wish to be cautious.

Upon your oath did not he last Friday name the name of Jordan to you? - Then I give my oath that he did not, for I do not recollect it.

Did not he tell you that this man would go back and convict Jordan for receiving stolen goods? - No he did not, nor any thing like it, he said this man had turned an evidence.

Against somebody for receiving stolen goods? - No, I swear that positively.

Nor that any body would be convicted if this man got back again? - No Sir.

Now upon your oath, did not he tell you that the whole from the beginning to the end, was a scheme laid to cut off this man, to prevent his being a witness? - No he did not.

Nor any thing like it? - No.

Then you swear positively, that you did not collect from their conversation, that it was their wish to have cut off this man? - No I did not particularly.

Did not you understand it so? - I did not, I understood so far as this, that if the man was tried and convicted, it might prevent him going back into Staffordshire to give evidence, but I did not suppose it was done entirely for that.

Then did not you understand as one good effect of it, it would prevent him from going back to give evidence? - I understood their view in prosecuting the prisoner was for stealing a handkerchief, and that it certainly would tend for the good of society.

Both by convicting him, and by hindering him from going into Staffordshire? - I never recollect that.

Court. I shall begin to change the opinion I entertained of you, I will read you what you have sworn this very minute,

"I did understand that if this man was convicted it might answer the purpose of preventing him from going down into Staffordshire to give evidence? - That is as I understood it.

Upon your oath did not Ashfield expressly tell you, that if they were not able to convict this man, that Jordan would be obliged to leave the country? - No nothing like it.

And if he was not convicted he would go back and be a witness? - No, I collect that from the circumstances of the case, not from what they said; I do not know that he was a witness in the country but from them, he never said he was a witness against any body.

Court. I will read you what you have said, Mr. Ashfield said he heard this young man had been concerned in an affair in the country, and had turned evidence, and that Ashfield told you the prisoner had been concerned with some people that had been stealing lead, and had turned informer, and he supposed they wished to have him back to give his evidence? - Yes Sir.

Do you know, except from James or Caldwell, or Ashfield, that this man was to go back to be an evidence against Jordan? I understood from them, as they related the affair to me, that if this man was set atliberty, he would certainly go into the country and give evidence against them.

Mr. Manley. Have you seen any other person upon this business before you saw Ashley, have not you seen this gentleman? - That is the gentleman.

When did he call upon you? - I believe it was Wednesday or Thursday, he asked me if I knew one Jones and James, and I said yes, I told him where they worked, but I found I had mistaken the people, I told him what I knew, and he said they had an affair, or a cause, or a trial in the country, and that the man was a witness, and that made him enquire.

Did you say any thing to this Ashfield about this mans' being a witness before he said any thing to you? - I did, and he told me that the prisoner was concerned in an affair in the country for stealing lead.

Mr. Garrow to Mr. James. Upon your oath, was not you taken up upon suspicion of being concerned with Sophia Pringle < no role > This name instance is in set 1311. for a forgery on the Bank? - No Sir, I was in custody with a man who calls himself Atkins for about an hour, he took me to Bow-street, but the magistrate took my word, and I attended the next day at the Solicitor of the Bank's house.

Did you go to visit Sophia Pringle < no role > in Newgate? - No Sir, I did not know her.

I believe you frequent the playhouses a good deal? - When I take a fancy to go I go.

Then you get in as I do, by paying your money? - Yes, I never go in without paying.

Do you mean to swear that when you go and offer to pay, you do get in? - Yes Sir, mostly.

Then upon your oath you never have been turned away as a common pickpocket? - I have been turned away with others by the constable.

Are you not frequently turned back as a common pick-pocket from the door of the theatre? - Never to my knowledge.

Have you never been turned back? - Yes.

How often last season? - I cannot say.

Are not you as regularly turned back as you are seen by a constable that knows you? - I do not know the reason of that.

Have you ever got admission when the constable was present and saw you? - Yes.

What constable? - I do not know.

Has not that man who stands within two of you, turned you back with ignominy and disgrace, perhaps he can prove it, has not he turned you back as a pickpocket? - Never.

Has not Townsend turned you back often? - Yes.

What reason did he assign? - I do not know.

Upon your oath do not you know, has not he said to your teeth that you was an unfit man to be there? - No never.

Has not he accused you of being one of the gang? - No.

Who do you live with in East-Harding-street? - With a woman to be sure.

Favour us with her name? - Why she goes by my name.

How long has she gone by your name? - Half a year.

What was her own name? - Hyser.

Perhaps you know the man that was convicted at that bar on Saturday last? - No Sir, upon my oath I do not know any man that has been convicted in this court this sessions.

Do you mean to say that neither Townsend nor any other man has turned you back, and said you was a notorious pickpocket? - They have turned me back, but I do not know what for.

How often have you been sent back in the course of the last season, have you so few as two or three times a week? - I do know what I was sent back for.

Court. Do you know what office Townsend belonged to? - Yes.

Did you ever complain to the magistrates of his misconduct for turning you back from the play-house? - I do not know that ever he did turn me away, he has called to me to go away, and I have gone.

Do not you know Barrington very well? - No Sir.

Have you never been in his company since he was discharged from this place last? - I never was in the company of George Barrington < no role > This name instance is in set 525. in my life to my knowledge.

Mr. Garrow. I have a vast number of witnesses from Staffordshire and other places.

Court. Gentlemen of the Jury, if you have any doubt I shall call on the learned gentleman for his witnesses.

Jury. We cannot have any doubt my Lord.

NOT GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.