705. EDWARD LOWE proceedingsdefend and WILLIAM JOBBINS proceedingsdefend This name instance is in set 1300. were indicted for that they, not having the fear of God before their eyes, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, on the 16th day of May last, at the parish of St. Botolph without Aldersgate , feloniously, wilfully, and maliciously did set on fire and burn the dwelling-house of Francis Gilding proceedingsvictim , there situate, against the form of the statute and against the king's peace .

A second Count, for setting fire to the same.

Counsel for the prosecution.

Mr. Fielding.

Mr. Garrow.

Mr. Gascoigne.

Counsel for the prisoners.

Mr. Knowlys.

Mr. Lawes.

(The case was opened by Mr. Fielding, and the pardon of James Flindall was read.)

JAMES FLINDALL < no role > sworn.

I was convicted in May sessions last.

Mr. Garrow. Now recollect that, in all you have to state to day, you are not only to confine yourself to the truth, but to tell the whole truth. - Yes.

Do you know the two prisoners, Lowe and Jobbins? - Yes; I have been acquainted with Lowe about eight years, and Jobbins about seven or eight months.

What way of life was Lowe in at the time you was acquainted with him? - To the best of my remembrance, he served part of his time to his father, a turner .

What was the other prisoner, Jobbins? - I know no more than hearsay: I heard say, he was apprentice to a chymist or apothecary.

Do you remember the fire in Aldersgate-street , in May last? - Yes; it was on the 16th of May, of a Sunday morning; the prisoners and me had been in company at Lowe's house and several other places.

State to the court and jury whether that fire in Aldersgate-street was occasioned by the wilful act of any persons? - Yes, it was.

Who were the persons who set fire to that house? - Edward Lowe and William Jobbins, the two prisoners at the bar, and myself.

Where was it, and at what time, that it was first proposed to do it? - On Wednesday, the 12th day of May, at Edward Lowe < no role > 's house.

Who were the persons present at the time? - The two prisoners and myself.

What passed? - On Wednesday, the 12th of May, Edward Lowe and William Jobbins, in company with me, met at Lowe's house, in Hartshorn-court, Golden-lane. William Jobbins < no role > then proposed to us that he had pitched on Mr. Gilding's and Mr. Berry's, as proper places to be set on fire, in Aldersgate.

For what purpose were they to be set on fire? - With intent to rob and plunder the inhabitants, while in confusion.

Did you and Lowe agree to that proposal of Jobbins? - Yes.

When did you meet again? - On Thursday, at the Sun ale-house, Cow-cross; Timothy Barnard < no role > was there likewise. We acquainted Barnard with the proposal, and Barnard went with me to Aldersgate-street: we left the two prisoners at the Sun, at Cow-cross.

For what purpose did you go? - With an intent to shew Barnard Mr < no role > . Gilding's house; we went through the Red Lion-yard, which goes through into Carthusian-street.

Did you observe any thing in the inn-yard? - There was a cart unloading trussesof clover into a hay loft, which adjoined to Mr. Gilding's warehouse; he was a cabinet-maker, with very extensive premises; Timothy Barnard < no role > then proposed this hay-loft as a proper place to be set on fire, as it would soon communicate to Mr. Gilding's dwelling-house and warehouses, as he said, the clover not being bound so tight as hay, would catch fire sooner, and blaze up; then Barnard and me returned to the Sun ale-house, Cow-cross; it might be about two o'clock; Lowe and Jobbins were there; we then told them that we had been to the place, and that Barnard had pitched on the hay-loft as fit to be set on fire; Barnard proposed to get some turpentine wood at the corner of the court where he lived, which being put in among the clover would soon blaze up; it was then agreed to meet Barnard at ten that evening, at his house in Pear-tree-court, Clerkenwell; and we went away about five o'clock: we accordingly met there at that time; in the mean time I directed Mrs. Lowe to get a pennyworth or two of spirits of turpentine, for the two prisoners and me went to Lowe's house, and Barnard went home; we then went out to get some money; we went out a thieving; but we did not get any; then we went to Barnard's at ten o'clock: before we went out a thieving, the turpentine which Mrs. Lowe bought, was mixed up by me, and Lowe, and Jobbins, and his wife, with some rags and paper, and put into a glove with some matches: when we went to Barnard's he was at home, in company with his wife; when we went in he said, he had some very good turpentine wood, and me and him put some into each of our pockets; it is old turpentine barrels cut up: we all four went from Barnard's house to Shoe-lane, with an intent to set fire to Mr. Miller's, a printer's joiner's shop, which was in the back part of his house; that did not have the desired effect; we went from there to Mr. Nash's, a coach-maker's, in Worship-street, Moorfields; I gave Lowe and Jobbins some wood out of my pocket, and they went to set fire to the stables, which soon went out; then we come away, and Barnard and Jobbins went separately; I lodged with Lowe, and Lowe and me went to Lowe's house to bed, about eight or nine in the morning; we staid there till between two and three in the afternoon of Friday; then me and Lowe went to the Sun, in Cow-cross; Jobbins was there; we then proposed to Jobbins and another man that was there, one James Bond < no role > , to go out a thieving; we did so; but did not succeed: Barnard was not with us: we staid till about nine at night; and I left them in Old-street, and went to Lowe's house, to desire Mrs. Lowe to get some turpentine, and then came back to them in Old-street, and told them; then we all, Lowe, Jobbins, Bond, and me, went in company to Lowe's house, and at ten o'clock we all went in company to a court in Long-lane, which comes to the back part of a stable, which adjoins Mr. Gilding's premises; Edward Lowe < no role > at that time had two picklock keys in his pocket, with intention to open the padlock that is on the stable door; but could not, and therefore could not get the combustibles in; two patrols were coming past the court, and they laid hold of the two prisoners; they were taken to the watch-house; I cannot say the names of the patrols; in the morning they were taken to the houses of their respective fathers; I went home to Lowe's house: I never saw Bond afterwards. On Saturday morning I got up at eleven, and went to the Sun ale-house, Cow-cross; Barnard was there; I then proposed to Barnard to go that night to set Mr. Gilding's house on fire; at that time the prisoners were not there; Barnard left me, and I continued at the Sun ale-house till five o'clock, when Jobbins came in; me and Jobbins continued till eight o'clock, when Lowe came; Lowe said, he had been at work at his father's all day; Lowe and Jobbins went out in company with me a thieving; we had no success, and returned to Lowe's house about ten in the evening; Mrs. Lowe went out and brought some spirits of turpentine in a phial; I cannotsay whether she brought them in that night, or the night before; then, with the assistance of Mrs. Lowe, Lowe, Jobbins, and me, mixed some rags with spirits of turpentine, and got some matches and turpentine-wood, which Mrs. Lowe bought a pennyworth of; it was not barrels, but the best we could get; and we put them all together into a glove; and the wood was put some into my pocket and some in Jobbins's; it was eleven o'clock by that time, and we three went to the Nag's-head, in Aldersgate-street; we left Mrs. Lowe at home, but ordered her not to go to bed; for if she should be called, to come and assist us in taking away the plunder. We had three or four pots of beer, and two half pints of gin, and a paper of tobacco. We staid there till half past twelve, and the landlord refused to draw us any more liquor; that was one of the houses that was burned down that night. We three went out of the house with each of us a pipe in our mouths alight, in order to light the matches and set fire to Mr. Gilding's premises. A stranger to us, a customer, came out at the same time we did. We four went to Carthusian-street, down that street; and by that time two of our pipes were broken: we went to the back gates of the Red-lion inn yard, which are in that street. The prisoner Jobbins got over the gates with a pipe in his mouth, which was the only remaining one; and, in getting over, the pipe was knocked out: I got over directly after Jobbins, and he gave me the pipe: the gate is an old wooden gate, with holes in it; I gave Lowe < no role > the pipe through the hole to get lighted, and he returned with it to me lighted; but in the mean time Jobbins went down the yard, and placed a ladder, which he found near the hay-loft, against the hay-loft door, which was the hay-loft pitched on by Barnard and me; then Lowe returned with the lighted pipe, and gave it me through the gate; I then went down the Red-lion inn yard with a pipe, and gave it to Jobbins, at the end of the ladder: the pipe went out as before: he gave me the pipe again, and I returned it to Lowe, which he lighted again, and handed to me through the gate; and at the same time he gave me some matches, which I gave to Jobbins with the pipe. I then went down the yard with Jobbins to the stable; then Jobbins went up the ladder with the pipe in his mouth, and the matches in his hand, into the clover-loft; when he lighted the matches, and set fire to the combustibles, which he had laid before, in my absence, among the clover hay. When I went for the pipe, I saw him go up the ladder: the combustibles soon blazed up. Jobbins and me came back, and got over the gates of the Red-lion yard into Carthusian-street: Lowe was then waiting at the gates, and desired me to go to his house for his wife: the fire then blazed. I went to Lowe's house, and found Mrs. Lowe laying down in her clothes; she returned back with me to the fire, which was then burning very rapidly: Mrs. Lowe and me returned in about twenty minutes. I left Lowe and Jobbins at the fire. We then went down the Red-lion yard, where Lowe was in a house bringing out boxes and things; the alarm of fire had been given, and people assisting: I then assisted, with Jobbins and Lowe, and Mrs. Lowe, to carry away the things that came out of the houses; I carried several things away into Aldersgate-street Buildings, in company with Lowe and Jobbins; they were left in the Buildings, in the care of a watchman. I then went back again to Mr. Gilding's, which was on fire; this was about an hour and an half after the first blaze. I went up into Mr. Gilding's dining-room, and brought down a vase case, containing about two dozen silver table-spoons; there was one gravy-spoon, and about a dozen desert-spoons. I went through the mob with it under my arm, to an inn yard, took out the spoons and put them in an handkerchief, and threw the case under the gateway. I then went home with the spoons and the handkerchief to Lowe's house, in Hartshorn-court, Golden-lane, Old-street, about five or ten minutes walk from the fire; I put them in a cupboard under the stairs, on the right-hand side. I then returned back to the fire; andthe prisoners had brought a great many things, from different houses, into Aldersgate-street Buildings: I met Lowe coming with two drawers, which he carried to the Buildings; I proposed to call Barnard then, and left Lowe and Jobbins at the fire, and went to Timothy Barnard < no role > 's house; he came out directly as I knocked. Barnard came with me to the fire; I shewed him the property in Aldersgate-street Buildings; he said, Here is something like, indeed! Then Lowe came, and Lowe and me desired Barnard to fetch a cart; and I left Lowe to mind the things, whilst I went with Barnard to fetch a cart: we could not get one, and came back to Lowe; then Barnard proposed to us, to get what things away we could, without a cart; and Lowe brought the two drawers I met him with before, which were the property of Mr. Gilding, on his head, to the bottom of the Buildings, and took them towards Sutton-street, in the way to Barnard's house; and he desired Barnard and me to follow him, which we accordingly did: he then carried them into St. John-street, near Sutton-street, and Barnard then lifted them off Lowe's head on to mine; and Barnard then desired me to follow him to his house. I followed Barnard till I came to New-prison Walk, which is near his house; Lowe and Barnard accompanied me; where I was stopped by an officer, named Mr. Lucy, with the two drawers on my head: Barnard walked off directly, and Lowe stood still by me, and was brought in afterwards by Lucy to the New-prison. There was a blanket over the drawers, to prevent people seeing what they were. Lowe and me were committed for trial. On the Sunday, Mrs. Lowe came to the prisoner Lowe and me, and brought us fourteen shillings, which in the presence of Lowe she said was part of the price of four spoons, which she said she had received of Jobbins as part of a guinea which the four spoons fetched; that was our two thirds of the guinea; the other seven shillings belonged to Jobbins. She said Jobbins told her he had sold them in Chancery-lane, but would not tell where. Jobbins was usually called by us the Little Doctor. I then told her to go home, and she would find in the cupboard under the stairs some silver spoons, which these four were a part of. The next day she returned to me and Lowe, and brought us three pounds fifteen shillings, which she said was the money she had received for the spoons, of Mr. Samuel, a Jew, whom we knew; and she never gave me any of the money, but took out a pair of stockings for me from pawn, that was two shillings. Then we were committed to Newgate, and I had at different times a few shillings; and some victuals that I had, she paid for it. The bill was not found against Lowe. I was tried, convicted, and have received my pardon.

Mr. Garrow. That is material; he was not tried for stealing the plate, he was indicted for stealing the goods of Mrs. Woodley in the dwelling-house of Mr. Gilding; the jury found him guilty of stealing, but not in the dwelling house.

I was ordered for transportation: I discovered this about six weeks after I was sentenced; I made no discovery of it before. I wrote a letter to Mr. Alderman Skinner: in the ward I was in, there was a person I thought I could depend on as a friend, not to hurt myself more than I was, and I got him to write a letter to Alderman Skinner; I told him the whole circumstance: his name is Wilkins.

Is the story you have been relating to the court and jury the truth? - Yes.

Are these the two persons that had the share in the transaction you have been describing? - They are.

Cross examined by Mr. Knowlys.

Now, Mr. Flindall, on Wednesday, which was three entire days before the fire happened, was the first time this scheme was concerted? - For that place.

You say it was the Thursday before you communicated it to Barnard? - Yes.

Barnard then alone went with you to view the premises? - Yes.

It was not Barnard's original scheme? - No.

Nor do you say that Barnard was present at the commission of the offence? - No.

I should think it then a little odd that Barnard was the person that was with you to view the premises and to concert that scheme? - It was so.

During this interval you certainly amused yourselves in going to search after the execution of plans of robbery? - Yes.

What time did you leave the Sun on Thursday? - Between four and five.

Are you sure of that? look at the jury. - Yes.

Is the Sun a house much frequented? - Yes.

At the times you were there, there were a great many more persons? - There might be three or four people more than we.

Then you do not know whether the house was full of customers or thin? - There might be two or three besides us; the taproom never was over and above thick of company; but the business was settled how it was to be conducted, as we were going to view the place; Barnard and me concerted the scheme, and communicated it to the two prisoners.

How long at any one time on the Thursday were you all together at the Sun? - I cannot say.

How long do you guess? - Half an hour.

Will you swear that you were not more than half an hour together at the Sun? - I cannot positively say, because we were some time together before Barnard and me went to view the premises, and some time afterwards; we might be an hour together the first time.

Might you be two hours together? - Not together.

Were you an hour and an half together? - I will not positively say; we might be an hour and an half, not more.

Did you drink much together? - No.

What did you drink? - Beer.

How much? - Not above a pot, or a couple of pots.

Was this the first time Barnard and you had been at the Sun? - The first time on this business; Barnard has been in company with me there before.

What hour was the first meeting at the Sun when you were all together? - About eleven or twelve.

Was the room thin or full then? - There were not many people there; there might be three besides us.

At what time were you all four there again? - About two o'clock; we were there about half an hour, or more; there were not above two or three people there then, and we had not more then than a pot of beer.

On the Friday, after Barnard left you, how long did you and the two prisoners remain there? - Till five o'clock: we were not all the time in that room; we went backwards in the skittle-ground.

Was the room thin or full during that time? - There were two or three, or four, people going in and out; the room got full and empty again in the time that we continued there.

You say, when you was taken by Lucy, Lowe stood still? - Yes.

He was found immediately on Lucy's going out again? - Yes.

You were in the same gaol together? - Yes.

How have you maintained yourself before that Wednesday? - By different other robberies, in company with the prisoners.

For what length of time had you maintained yourself by a course of robberies and plunder on the public? - About eight weeks.

What way of life was you in before? - I followed the sea for some time.

Do you mean to confine your course of robberies to seven or eight weeks? - With these people: I have been out before.

What has been the course of your life for these last three years, has it not been a course of robbery and plunder? - No, not three years.

How much of the three years? - About two years.

How often have you been in custody, during that time, on various accusations? - Once before within the two years.

Did not you fear that the plan of burning houses might be fatal to the lives of many people in the night? - Without adoubt I did; but the plan was not proposed by me: when I saw the fire, I cannot say but it shocked me very much, but not before, not the idea of burning people.

You planned it, I suppose, to be in the night? - Yes.

When you wrote to the worthy alderman, you thought you could not be the worse for it? - I did not think so: I applied to this person that was in the same ward, thinking him a friend of mine, and asked his advice; I thought if I could make it appear to the public without hurting myself I would, and therefore I caused this letter to be written.

I believe you proposed to get a pardon by this discovery? - I proposed to get nothing.

Did not you hope to get a pardon for this discovery? - I had an hope that mercy should be shewn me if I should petition for it, but nothing further.

That mercy was a pardon, was not it? - My expectation was, if I wrote a petition to his Majesty, or the Secretary, that, after I had done public justice, I thought I might receive some favour.

Did not you expect a pardon? - No, I cannot say I did; I had a thought that I should receive some favour, I had a hope of receiving some favour, I cannot say a pardon, a free pardon, or any thing of that kind; I expected to go to sea.

Mr. Garrow. Did either of the prisoners ever observe to you, that this would be attended with murder, and that you had better desist? - Never.

So they were as bad as you? - Yes.

You thought, by making a disclosure, you should not make your situation worse, and that, after you had done justice to the public, his Majesty might shew you some clemency? - Yes.

What that was you could not guess? - No.

Have you, as far as depends on you today, been doing justice to the public? - I have.

Have you been telling the truth? - I have.

Have you been making a false accusation against any man? - I have not.

THOMAS DUGGIN < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Gascoigne.

I keep the new Sun, in Cow-cross.

How long have you kept it? - Some time.

Did you ever see the prisoners at your house? - Yes, frequently; I believe the prisoner Jobbins used the house before I took it.

Have you seen them in company together at your house? - I think I have.

Do you know Flindall? - Yes.

Have you seen him at your house? - Yes.

In company with the two prisoners? - To the best of my knowledge I have.

You remember the great fire in Aldersgate-street? - Yes.

Do you remember seeing the prisoners at the bar at your house on the Thursday before that fire happened? - I cannot say I do, not to be positive; but I suppose I have, as they used to come in and out.

Do you know the wife of Lowe? - Yes.

Has she been at your house in company with her husband, or Jobbins, or Flindall? - I think she has, to the best of my recollection.

Did she ever leave any thing at your house? - When Flindall and Edward Lowe < no role > were in prison, she called at my house, and left a pistol in my custody.

What was to be done with it? - She left it with me till somebody should call for it; I do not recollect that she mentioned who.

Cross examined by Mr. Lawes.

Was you generally at home? - Yes.

You cannot say whether you saw any of those prisoners together? - I think I have, to the best of my knowledge.

Can you be positive of that? - I think I can be positive that I have.

When was the first time you ever saw Lowe, in your life? - I cannot recollect that.

Recollect the deposition you gave before the magistrate relative to that. - I should suppose it was in January.

Did not you say before the magistrate that you never saw Lowe till the evening of the fire? - I did not.

Mr. Fielding. You never said any such thing to the magistrate? - I did not say any such thing to the best of my knowledge.

Mr. Lawes. Can you recollect whether on the day of the fire you saw the prisoners together at your house? - I cannot recollect that I did.

JOHN BURRELL < no role > sworn.

Mr. Fielding. Is your name John Burrell < no role > ? - I cannot positively say; they call me so.

You are servant to Mr. Thomas Duggin < no role > , at the Sun alehouse, Cow-cross? - Yes.

You have lived there, I believe, some years? - Yes.

Look at the two prisoners at the bar; do you remember their being at your house? - Yes.

Look at Flindall. - I know him.

Have you seen them at your master's house together? - Not to the best of my knowledge; I might, but I cannot pretend to say.

You know their persons, you say? - Yes. Have you seen them at your master's house? - Yes.

Have you seen them together? - I cannot recollect; they might; I cannot pretend to say, I cannot charge my memory.

You are sure you have seen them at your master's house? - Oh, yes.

More than once? - Oh, yes, two or three times.

Your business is in and out of the taproom? - Yes.

Mr. Knowlys. Your situation is to carry out beer backwards and forwards to your master's customers? - Yes.

JAMES EDWARDS < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Garrow.

I am a watchmaker; I live in Barbican: I know the Nag's-head alehouse in Aldersgate-street; I remember the fire.

Do you remember being at that house the night of the fire? - I do.

Look at the prisoners; were they there that night? - I cannot say to Lowe; Jobbins, I am sure, and Flindall were there; I cannot recollect Lowe at all.

Were there other persons in company with Flindall and Jobbins? - There were.

About what time did you leave the house? - I believe ten minutes after twelve, as near as I can recollect.

Did you leave Jobbins and Flindall, and their companions, there, when you went away? - I cannot be sure whether Flindall was there when I went away, but Jobbins walked round the room with a pipe in his mouth, and I believe he went out of doors; whether he went away or not, I do not know.

How near do you live to Mr. Gilding's? - I believe it is two stones throw, half the length of Barbican; I was just going to get into bed when I was alarmed by the fire.

As to the persons of Flindall and Jobbins you are perfectly sure of? - Yes.

BENJAMIN WILLIAMS < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Fielding.

I keep the Nag's-head, in Aldersgate-street; I was burnt out: I remember the night of the fire beginning.

Do you know Lowe? - Yes.

Do you know Flindall? - Yes.

Do you remember them coming to your house the night of the fire? - Lowe and Flindall went out of my house about half after twelve on the night of the fire.

They had been there some time that evening? - They had; and they had either three or four pots of porter, and one if not two papers of tobacco; I can say but to one; they had some pipes, they had half a pint of gin, and they wanted a pot of porter after I had locked up my bar and my cellar; I refused drawing them any more liquor; Flindall pressed very hard for half a pint more gin, but I said I would sell no more. I cannot say that Mr. Edwards was there, nor whether the prisoner Jobbins was there. I was in bed in five minutes after they went away. I was alarmed about one o'clock.The back part of my yard adjoins Mr. Gilding's premises.

JOHN RUSSELL < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Garrow.

You are one of the watchmen belonging to the Charter-house square? - Yes.

How near are you to the gates of the Red-lion? - I cannot say: there is a gate to the square; I do not go beyond those gates: it is a wooden railed gate, an open gate; you may see through it: the Red-lion gate is about six yards from my box.

When you went your rounds, did you carry your lanthorn with you, or leave it in your box? - Leave it in my box.

Do you remember the night that the fire happened at Mr. Gilding's? - Yes.

Do you remember your calling the hour of twelve in that night? - Yes.

Did you leave your lanthorn then in the box? - Yes.

In the course of that night, and before the fire, did you hear any thing that caused your attention? - No, Sir, nothing, till I had done calling half after twelve; then I thought I heard a foot-step in Carthusian-street; I went to look through the gate, but I could see nobody; but I directly saw the fire.

How long does it take you to go round and return to your box? - Sometimes more, sometimes less; sometimes ten or twelve minutes. When I saw the reflection of the fire, I look upon it to be three quarters after twelve, it was beyond the half hour, but could not tell exactly, as we have no chimes to the Charter-house clock; it was before one.

Where did the reflection of the fire come from? - From the Red-lion yard, from some stables; it had just got a little above the tiles; I suppose it had been some time before it could get through the tiles.

What sort of a gate was there to the inn yard, at that time, in Carthusian-street? - A wooden gate.

Could a man easily get over it? - Yes, very easily.

How so? - Because there was a part of the wall broken down by people getting over, some that belonged to the yard, such as coachmen and others; it was easy enough to get over there.

The Charter-house gate was as easy to get over? - Yes, either over or under.

So that if I had wanted to have come to your box for a light, I could have done it easily. - Very easily.

WILLIAM KYME < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Gascoigne.

I kept the Red-lion inn: I went to bed about a quarter after twelve: in the morning, about a quarter before one, I was alarmed with fire, by the watchman; I saw a very bad fire in a hay-loft, over a flour warehouse of mine, adjoining to Mr. Gilding's premises; there was clover-hay chiefly in the loft, and some straw and meadow-hay; there was clover brought in three successive days before the fire happened, on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday: there was a ladder locked to the side, that nobody should take it away to any other place; it was to go into the loft.

Was it easy to place the ladder so as to get into the loft? - Oh, yes, very easy; it was for that express purpose. I secured my property in my iron chest, in my bed-room: I went down to fetch a candle; and in about a quarter of an hour after I was alarmed, and I left two or three of my doors open; and very soon after I returned, which was a little after one, this Lowe and Flindall came into my bed-room; I asked them what they wanted, and they said they come to assist me: I told them they were two thieves, I said they were nothing but thieves, and I told them I supposed they came to rob me: then they said they were no such thing as that, they came to serve me, and they would assist me; and I wanted somebody to remove my iron chest further from the fire, and they did assist in that: then they wanted to help me to take my beds and other things away; I told them they should not touch them, I wanted no further assistance fromthem, for I suspected them to be nothing but thieves, and they should not meddle with any thing, then they went off, and I had nothing to say to them.

Are you now quite sure, that Flindall and Lowe were the two persons? - I am quite sure.

Is your house in the Inn yard? - Yes, much about the middle.

THOMAS COLLINS < no role > sworn.

I am a constable; I attended at the fire in Aldersgate-street; I saw Lowe there; I went there about three, and it was sometime after I was there, about half an hour or three quarters of an hour, he was walking backwards and forwards by the end of Aldersgate-street Buildings; there was a parcel of goods brought from the fire, and a watchman in care of them. I saw Lowe twice or three times walking backwards and forwards: he past by the end of the Buildings, and I went as far as the Vine-yard; I believe Lowe saw me; I went there on purpose; I knew Lowe before, that made me take notice of him; I looked at him to see what he was after, as I did some other people; I am positive he was there; I know Flindall, I know Jobbins; I cannot say I saw either of them at the fire.

HARRY MORAY < no role > sworn.

(Examined by Mr. Fielding.)

You remember the fire in Aldersgate-street? - Yes, I was there at the time, about one o'clock.

Look at the prisoner Jobbins, and see if you know him? - Yes, I do.

You have no doubt of him? - None at all.

Did you see him at the fire that night? - Yes.

Whereabouts? - Why in different parts, by Mr. Gilding's, and one time at another house; it was half after one or two when I first saw him; it might be half an hour between one time and another.

THOMAS BURGIN < no role > sworn.

On the sixteenth of May last you was a servant to Mr. Gilding? - Yes.

You remember the fire at his house? - Yes.

Look at the bar, and tell us whether you saw the prisoners at the fire? - I saw Lowe only.

Did you see Flindall there? - No; some time after he was getting out the things, I come out of my master's house with some things, and put them across the road; and going back for more, I saw some linen, which turned out to be sheets, coming out of my master's window up two pair of stairs; I caught hold of the sheets; Lowe immediately told me I had no business with them, for he was Mr. Gilding's servant; I immediately looked him in the face, and told him he was not Mr. Gilding's servant, for I was, and if he was also, I should know him.

As you looked him in the face, you are sure that is the man? - Yes.

Positive? - Yes: he still insisted on the things, for I had no business with them; some gentleman came up to him, and told him to let go the things for they knew me to be Mr. Gilding's servant; he immediately let go of them, and went about his business.

Mr. Knowlys. The moment he was sure you was Mr. Gilding's servant, he gave them up? - Yes.

Mr. Garrow. He would not know you was Gilding's servant, but he must have known he was not, must not he? - Yes.

JOSEPH DOUGLAS < no role > sworn.

I am a turner; I remember being at the fire in Aldersgate-street; I know Mr. Gilding's counting-house. (The prisoner Timothy Barnard < no role > ordered to be brought up.) I saw a person coming towards Mr. Gilding's counting-house, whom I have seen in custody. (Barnard brought in.) I am positive that is the person; I gave him a book to deliver at Mr. Blackburne's, and I followed him; I was close behind him; I saw him go another way; I immediately delivered the book to Mrs. Blackburne, and followed him, and he came back and delivered it; I am sure that was the man, and, to the best of my knowledge, it was about two o'clock.

JOHN CARTER < no role > sworn.

I am servant to Mr. Gilding; I know Timothy Barnard < no role > ; I saw him there; he was in Mr. Gilding's counting-house; I gave him several books to carry, but I do not know where they were carried to; I had a box on my head, and Barnard wanted to carry it; he said he belonged to them; I said, so did I, and I would not let him have it.

JOHN HEWITT < no role > sworn.

I was at this fire; I saw Edward Lowe < no role > there; he was coming from the fire with a box on his shoulder; Robert Newman < no role > , the constable, stopped him, and said you shall carry it no further, and he pointed to Aldersgate-street Buildings, and made him put it there; I am sure he was the man.

Mr. Lawes. About two in the morning? - Yes.

JOHN LUCY < no role > sworn.

I am a peace-officer; I was in Aldersgate-street after the fire happened; I know Flindall and Lowe. In the morning of the 16th of May, about five o'clock, in St. James's Walk, Clerkenwell, at the end of which is Short's Buildings, I observed two men coming after me with some property on their head, and there was a third person looking into Mr. Rhode's, our vestry clerk's garden; I waited till they came up to me in Short's Buildings; I went up to Flindall, who had on his head two drawers, with wearing apparel, covered with a blanket; having heard of the fire, I suspected them: I asked the person, which was Flindall, what he had there? he said some property from the Red Lion Inn Yard, Aldersgate-street, and was going to No. 12, Pear-tree-court, Clerkenwell-close; I laid hold of him, and took him and the property into New Prison; I was then close to the gate; I came out of the prison, and found Lowe near where I had left him; he was without his hat, and his coat wet; I secured him; he said he had been at the fire to assist the sufferers; I took him into custody; Flindall was afterwards tried and convicted for stealing the goods; the bill was not found against Lowe.

EDWARD MOTTRAM < no role > sworn.

I am a constable of Aldersgate Ward; I think I know both the prisoners well; Lowe, I am positive, was in my custody about the middle of May, and I am persuaded in my own mind, Jobbins also, but I am not so positive to him; in going round the Ward, to the best of my remembrance, the two prisoners I took up a little passage, which I believe is called Cock-court, Long-lane; I saw a person or two up the passage, and being an unseemly hour, I went up the court and took them into custody, as suspicious characters; they was making water they said; I said it would have been decent in the day, but at night there was no such necessity; I called the patroll; I took them to the watch-house; I searched them, and found nothing; I asked them where they lived, and they gave me a verbal direction; I went home with Jobbins to his father's house, who rents a little tenement of one Brown, an oil-man, at the end of Old-street, in Goswell-street; I came back to the watch-house, and took Lowe home to his father's house in Bridgewater-Gardens; I cannot say particularly what night this was, as I keep no minute, by business being always settled the next morning; the patroll is not here.

JOSEPH SAMUEL < no role > sworn.

I live in Still-alley, Houndsditch.

Mr. Garrow. What business do you follow? - Clothes dealing.

A general dealer? - A general dealer, if I can find nothing else.

Do you remember the circumstance of a fire in Aldersgate-street? - Yes, Sir, I remember hearing of it after I had bought some silver of Mrs. Lowe.

What did you buy? - Some silver spoons of Mrs. Lowe, the wife of the prisoner Lowe, as far as ever I understood. I know the prisoner Lowe; I came to his house,and asked for him; his wife said he was not at home.

Did you at any time buy any thing of Mrs. Lowe? - Yes, ten or eleven desert and table silver spoons, and among them one long narrow spoon, which I believe is called a marrow spoon.

From what place did Mrs. Lowe take those things? - Why, she went out of the room that she and I was in, and took them out of a bit of a closet joining to the staircase on the right-hand; I cannot tell whether she had more, but I bought all she shewed me: I paid her 3 l. 15 s. they were at 4 s. 10 d. an ounce. I sold them afterwards to a man that deals abroad, for 5 s. 2 d. an ounce. The first time I saw Lowe after, was the day he was discharged: he had no hat on, and his coat under his arm. I was going out: says I, how do you do, Lowe, will you walk in? and he said, yes, I am come on purpose to speak to you. I took him in doors, and he then said, Mr. Samuel, if you have got any of those spoons that you bought of my wife, that came from the fire in Aldersgate-street, I beg of you. for God's sake, to make away with them, for I think Jem Flindall will be a rogue: for, says he, the day that Jem Flindall was arraigned at the bar of the Old-Bailey, he sent me down a letter, and required eight or nine shillings of me, that he then wanted: and, in case I did not send it to him, he threatened to tell the Judge the whole affair; and in case Flindall was hanged, he said I (meaning Lowe) should be hanged along with him. I then said, it is something amazing to me that you should be afraid of Flindall's being a rogue, there is nothing to affect you: you are discharged, and at your liberty, in what can he hurt you? and he then said, there are other circumstances in the way. I then begged of him to tell me what he was afraid of: he was a long time hesitating, but at last he said, I may tell you, that I, Flindall, and the others, set them houses in Aldersgate-street on fire, and I now intend to go on board of ship. He then said to me, I think Mr. Samuel, you have used me rather ill. In what? says I. Why, says he, concerning the money you gave my wife for the silver: for, says he, I think that twenty spoons, certainly come to more than three pound fifteen shillings, for says he, the little doctor, (by which name we called Jobbins) had sold some of the desert spoons, which were the smallest, to a person in Chancery-lane, for seven shillings a piece, and had sent Flindall and him fourteen shillings, and kept seven shillings to himself. I then told him, says I, I tell you what, Mr. Lowe, your wife will never tell me to my face that I bought twenty spoons, for if there had been twenty they would have come to more money. He then said to me, I think, Mr. Samuel, I have been very lucky in this business; I said, how lucky? He said, I may say I have saved my life twice; I asked how? Why, says he, I may say, I have saved my life now, by being acquitted; and, the first time, when the fire was in the house of Mr. Gilding, I entered the house and ran up stairs, and I had scarcely been a minute in the room, before it was all in a blaze, and I was forced to make my escape out of one of the windows, and I was catched by the mob. I gave him half-a-crown, and declined going with him.

Did you see Lowe again after that? - Yes; some days afterwards, I was coming from the Borough across London-bridge, I met Lowe coming towards me; I hardly knew him; he had on a canvas jacket, and a pair of nankeen breeches; he said he was going down that evening. Down, says I, where? Says he, to the Nore, on board of ship; and he asked me if I had heard any thing concerning Flindall, about the business, (which I understood to mean the business he had been talking of)? I told him no, I had not troubled myself about it; he asked me to give him something to drink; and I took him to the dram shop in Thames-street, and we had a glass a-piece; and from that time I have not seen him, till I saw him in Guildhall. My wife was present only a short part of the time, for she was very ill.

You knew these people before? - Yes.

I take it for granted, you suspected these things were not come honestly by? - I knew they were not.

Mr. Knowlys. How long have you known Flindall? - Five or six months.

How often has he been at your house? - Pretty often.

On business? - Yes.

You know very well what I mean by business? - Yes, I suppose I do.

That is to say, bringing you the result of his plunder - that you mean? - You mean that I suppose.

Is that true? - Yes, I suppose it might.

For what course of time have you been in this known character: a general merchant we will call it? - Sir!

How long has your house been a house for this purpose? - I do not know that my house has been resorted to but by these people. I have been a general dealer in an honest livelihood, which I can prove, though I have been under the lash of the Court.

How long in the honest way? - Many years.

How long in the dishonest line? - Not long.

You know very well, that by giving evidence, you save yourself from prosecution? - Certainly; but I came voluntarily several hundred miles; I was not sent for; and my wife came up voluntarily too.

Mr. Garrow. The gentleman has asked you whether Flindall came to your house to sell stolen goods? - Yes.

Who came with him? - Jobbins and Lowe.

This is the commencement of your atonement to the public? - Yes.

The property was disposed of? - Yes.

Therefore nothing could come against you? - No.

ELIZABETH SAMUEL < no role > sworn.

I am wife of Joseph Samuel < no role > .

Do you know Lowe? - Yes, I do.

Do you know his wife? - Very well; I remember the fire in Aldersgate-street, on the 17th of May; I saw Mrs. Lowe at our house; my husband had been out, and he came home with Mrs. Lowe, and brought some silver spoons, and my husband weighed them, and paid her for them.

After this did you see Lowe at your husband's house? - Yes, some time after Lowe came to my house, without a hat, and spoke something to my husband, I do not know what; and he came to me, and he said, Mrs. Samuel, if you have any of those spoons that your husband bought of my wife, make away with them, for they came from a place that we set alight in Aldersgate-street; and he said he was going on board a ship.

Are you sure this was an observation of Lowe, and the conversation he used? - Yes.

Mr. Knowlys. When your husband is out, and people bring things, then you take them in? - I did not buy any thing at all of this; I did not buy any thing from that time; I deal in old cloaths, and cry them about the streets.

Do you mean to swear that your dealings are confined to old cloaths? - I have bought things before, but no great matter.

LLOYD GARSIDE < no role > sworn.

I am a hat-manufacturer; I live in St. John's-street, Smithfield. I saw the prisoners the day of the fire facing my door. I know Peartree-court; St. John-street is in the way from Mr. Gilding's to Peartree-court.

Look at Flindall? - He was with Lowe and another; there were three in company; I cannot swear to the third person.

(Barnard brought forward.)

He is very much like him, but I cannot be certain; it was about five in the morning; they were all three together: they were coming down Sutton-street, past my door, and towards Clerkenwell; one of them carried something on his head, covered with a sort of a cloth. Lowe carried it, and by my door he gave it to Flindall.

Mr. Garrow to Mr. Lucy. On the trial of Flindall you produced the articles youtook on his head? - I delivered them to Mr. Gilding, and the goods to Mrs. Woodyere, as her name was then, it is now Burden.

ELIZABETH BURDEN < no role > sworn.

My maiden-name was Woodyere; I was servant to Mr. Gilding at the time of the fire in Aldersgate-street; I lost my wearing apparel; these were the drawers I had to put my clothes in, and there were articles of wearing apparel in them; they were in the garret; those drawers and things were a part of the property lost; they were returned to me; they are the same that were lost, and the same that were produced on that trial.

JOHN RICHARDS < no role > sworn.

I am in the employ of the Sun-fire-Office; I was present at the apprehension of Lowe: he was on board the Brunswick, entered by the name of Edward Price < no role > ; I enquired both for Lowe and Price; he answered to the name of Price, and insisted upon it to me that his name was Price, and not Lowe; he had his trowsers on; I requested he would pull up his trowsers that I might see his legs, for I had information that one of his legs had been fractured, and not having been properly set, it was bent and differed very much from the other; I found it was so, and I asked him how it happened; he said it was from a kick of a horse and not properly set; I told the commanding officer he was the man I wanted, and he was delivered to my orders. At Guildhall I told this to the Alderman, but he then answered by the name of Lowe. The other prisoner was apprehended on board the Crescent; as the men were called over, he was pointed out to me by Clarke, who was with me; he said, Jobbins, I am come for you; the officer said, in his hearing, his name is not Jobbins, his name is Burne; he was secured; the ships were both at Spithead.

Mr. Knowlys. Did you know there was an advertisement offering a reward on the conviction of any of those offenders? - There was a reward of fifty guineas for each of the offenders.

FRANCIS GILDING < no role > sworn.

Mr. Fielding. I believe it was your premises that were unfortunately burnt? - They were.

Are those drawers within your knowledge? - They are.

Do you know the quantity of silver spoons that were lost from your house? - About two dozen, in a vase case.

Mr. Lawes. Is this house your own? - Yes.

JANE GILDING < no role > sworn.

I can swear to the drawers; I know there were twelve table and twelve desert spoons in a vase case; and there might be a marrow spoon in it, there frequently was.

Mr. Fielding. My Lord, we have finished the case for the prosecution.

Prisoner Lowe. I leave it to my counsel.

Prisoner Jobbins. I leave it to my counsel.

EDWARD WATSON < no role > sworn.

(Examined by Mr. Knowlys.)

I am a journeyman watch-finisher; I have known the prisoner Jobbins ten years, from his first going to St. Paul's School; I never heard his character impeached; he was employed in the medical line, as a surgeon and man-midwife; his father gave seventy guineas with him.

Did you ever apply to him in that character? - I did once, on the Saturday, at his father's house, previous to the fire; the fire happened on the Sunday morning; he was not at home in the evening; I waited for him; I saw him.

What time did he come home, that you had the opportunity of seeing him? - It was past twelve o'clock; I went to the west end of the town.

Where had you come from? - From Westminster.

How long had you waited at the house for him? - Very near two hours.

Whose house was this? - Mr. Jobbins, the father's.

Did the son reside at the father's? - He did.

Where is the house situated? - Opposite Charter-house-wall, Goswell-street; it looks into the gardens.

How long after twelve was it when he came home? - About a quarter; it was just turned twelve when he came in; or it might be ten minutes past twelve when he came in.

How long did he continue with you? - I suppose about twenty minutes, or there-away.

What did he do for you? - He made me up some pills.

Did he go away with you when you went away, or did he remain at home? - He remained at home.

Was the father at home? - He was.

Did you see him? - Yes, I certainly saw him, for nobody lives in that part of the house, but the father and son.

(Cross-examined by Mr. Fielding.)

Whereabouts is this house of the father's? - It is a coal-shop, the corner of Rotten-row; it is a double house; the father has all the upper part of the house; he belongs to the Keys, some department under government.

Did you know the master with whom this boy served his time? - No.

How long have you been acquainted with him? - Between nine and ten years.

How did you know he served his time to a surgeon? - By his father coming to me, and borrowing my indenture to copy from.

You never heard him mention the name of the man? - No; I never heard any conversation relative to that business.

Where do you live? - In Golden-lane, with my mother.

Are you out of your time? - Between eight and nine years.

Who did you serve your time with? - One Wiltshire, in Bloomsbury.

Who do you work for now? - Mr. Delasont, at the Change.

Have you any family? - No.

How did your acquaintance begin? - By the father, who came to my father's house.

Then you tell me you never had any conversation with Jobbins about his skill in the business? - I never wanted any thing of the kind before.

What hour did you go at? - About half after eight.

Do you know the neighbourhood? - Yes.

How far is this place from the place where the fire happened? - I never was there in company with him; I have been there since.

How far is it from the father's? - Near half a quarter of a mile.

Is it so far even as that? - I suppose it might be.

Now, young man, you went to this house you say, at ten? - On my return I called upon him.

You went at half past eight, and he was not at home? - No, he was not.

What time did he come in? - Past twelve.

Was he smoking his pipe at that time? - No, he was not.

Was any body with him? - Not as I know of.

How long did he stay then? - About twenty minutes after twelve I left him, or rather more.

Did he smoke there the time he came to his father's? - No; his father was always against his smoking.

What! were your habits of intimacy such as to know that? - I have heard his father say so.

Upon what occasion, or why; take care young man? - I have heard him say so; he had always an objection to company.

Can you recollect any one time now, when you heard the father say so; is the father here? - Yes, I fancy he is.

When was it you heard the father object to his smoking? - Half a year or a year ago; my mother used to wash for the father.

Then not later, you have heard that objection? - No.

Then you remember that half a year ago? - He did, somewhere thereabouts.

How many visits did you pay this young man at his father's house, after that Saturday? - I never had occasion to pay any more visits, because his father came to our house for some linen.

Have you ever been there since? - No; I had no occasion; I had a sufficient quantity, and I satisfied him on the Saturday night.

When did the father come to your house after this Saturday? - The week following, I think he came for some linen; he frequently visits my mother.

Did he hold any conversation with you or your mother, more than to require the linen that he wanted? - No more.

Have you ever seen the father since? - Yes, several times, at my own house; he frequently calls on account of his linen.

Was that the only occasion that brought him to your mother's house? - Yes.

Have you had any conversation relating to his son? - He certainly informed me of the unfortunate situation of his son.

When was that? - About three weeks ago.

In what manner did he inform you? - He told me that his son was gone on board a ship, and that he was taken up for being concerned in this fire; that was the very first I ever heard any thing about this young man, from the Saturday night, till I saw the father, about three weeks ago.

Court. Upon what occasion did you apply to him for the pills? - From a violent fall I had from a chair, which hurt my loins.

When did this accident happen to you? - On the Wednesday before, at my own house.

How came you to go at so late a time of night, on an accident that happened on the Wednesday before? - I went first at half past eight; then I went to Westminster, and called in Fleet-street on my business; the father was at home; I took a book out of the library.

What did you want the book for? - It is common to take a book when one is in a room.

What was the book? - I do not recollect rightly; it was something about medicine; he came in about a quarter after twelve; I staid about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour.

JOHN JOBBINS < no role > sworn.

I am the father of the young man at the bar: I live in Goswell-street, in a house of Mr. Brown's; his door fronts one way, and mine the other; there is no communication; it is a separate house; I have lived there about six years. I have only one son; I keep no servant; my income is but small; I am a king's locker at the Custom-house.

Did your son live at home with you at the time of the fire? - He did.

Do you happen to know in what way he disposed of his time for several days preceding the fire, during the week? - He was at home always when I came home, at three o'clock; the former part of the day, I can give no. more account of him than you; I go to my duty at nine o'clock, sometimes not till ten or eleven; he was at home when I was there; sometimes I came home at half after two.

On Saturday, when you returned home, and from three o'clock the day of the fire, was your son at home? - He was at home, writing, and had been writing for the week before; he was writing a chronicle; he continued at home till between seven and eight; I was at home all that time, when I desired him to go to the White-horse Cellar, to see for something that I expected from Gloucestershire, which was to lay there till called for; he did not find any thing; and he did not return till a little past twelve; in the mean time a Mr. Watson came about nine o'clock that evening; he asked me if my son was at home? I told told him no, but he would be in presently, I dare say; he said he was going farther, he would call as he came back; he returned about eleven; he waited till it was a little past twelve, when my son came home.

Do you know the nature of his business with your son? - He asked him if he couldmake him up something for a strain? my son told him if he would wait about a quarter of an hour, he could; accordingly he made some pills in a box, and he paid him; I saw him.

Has your son any books? - He has a little library.

When Mr. Watson went away, what became of your son? - He went to bed with me; he had not been in bed half an hour, before the alarm of fire was.

How long was it before he got up? - Half an hour, I believe; and he got up and said, there was a fire; says he, I will run and see it; I said, do not go, for you may be hurt; he said he would take care not to be hurt, and he would not stay long.

Do you know the time he returned? - No, I cannot say I do, for I had been asleep, for I had no light.

Did he return to bed? - He did.

Was he in bed with you when you awoke? - He was.

What became of him on the Sunday? - He was at home all day on Sunday, and until Monday, past nine, till I went to my office.

Who was your son apprentice to? - Mr. Cowley; he is dead; since then he has lived with me; Mr. Cowley was a surgeon and apothecary; I gave fifty guineas with him, and all expences.

Was your son a studious and attentive young man? - Oh, very; he understood Latin very well, and the anatomical science; sometimes for three weeks together he was studying in his profession, and composing things.

(Cross-examined by Mr. Garrow.)

Mr. Jobbins, in the course of my life, I never had so painful a duty as at present. How far do you live from the Nag's-head, in Aldersgate-street? - I do not know where it is; I never go to a public house.

Did you know the premises that were burnt down? - I do not know the situation, nor who lives there.

Am I to understand, that knowing for two months past your son has been in custody upon a charge that was to affect his life, you have never had the curiosity to see the place where he was supposed to be? - Oh, Sir! I see it every day.

So I thought. How far is that place from your dwelling house? - About one hundred yards, or one hundred and twenty, one hundred and thirty, one hundred and forty, or one hundred and fifty.

Did you get up, when your son got up, and look out of the window? - I did, and saw the fire very plain; I thought it was nearer than it was; I thought it was within fifty, sixty, or one hundred yards.

So that I am to understand, you being awoke out of your sleep by a fire within fifty, sixty, or one hundred yards, you reposed yourself into such a sleep, that your son came to bed to you without waking you. Was you awake when he came home? - I do not know that I was awake, for I fell asleep, and he came home; at what time he came home I do not know.

Did you compose yourself at a distance of fifty, sixty, or one hundred yards off such a fire as that in Aldersgate-street, so that you got at last into such a sleep, that a man came to bed to you without waking you? - I do not say but I might awake; I say, what time it was I could not tell, because I had not light enough to see my watch; whether I had or not, I did not look.

Was you, or was you not awake when your son came home? - He awaked me when he came to bed.

He did? - Yes.

Then he undressed himself in your presence? - Yes, he did.

You remember the fact of his coming to bed? - Certainly.

What time was it? - I cannot tell.

Did you enter into any conversation with him? - Why yes; I asked him where was the fire? he said, in Aldersgate-street.

Then you now perfectly recollect your son's coming to bed? - Yes.

Then the reason you did not look at your watch was, because you had not light enough to see it? - I do not know that was the reason; I did not look; there might belight enough; I paid no attention to the time.

What age is your son? - Nineteen.

How long did he serve Mr. Cowley? - Two years and an half.

And continued with him till his death? - Yes, within a very little.

Then it was not the death of his master that occasioned him to leave Mr. Cowley? - No, Sir, it was not; I thought his master used him ill, and had not practice sufficient for him, therefore I took him away. I went to St. Bartholomew's hospital to treat with a gentlemen: surgeon Sharp said he would give me an answer, to take my son, if he did not take another.

How long, in truth, after he left Mr. Cowley, did he continue to live with you? - Two years.

Did you, in truth, take this young man from his service at the age of seventeen, and continue him in your house as his own master, for two years? - Yes.

Had he any body to controul him there? - I was his father.

You was pretty much from home? - I went out at eight or nine, sometimes ten or eleven, to my duty, and had done by two, or half an hour after three.

Did you hold no other conversation with on his coming to bed, but where the fire was? - I did not ask him many questions; I asked him when I got up.

You did not ask even whether it was a large fire? - He told me it was.

Did you ask him if any lives had been lost? - He told me he had heard of none.

Did he appear to have been very active? - No, Sir, not to my knowledge.

Had you the curiosity to ask him what time it was? - I did not ask him, nor I did not know.

Did your son practise much for himself? - He did practise what he could get, and chiefly a few pills for the disorder.

Where did he keep the ingredients for his medicines? - He went and bought them as he wanted them.

No stock? - Yes, he did, sometimes, two or three pounds of things.

He had the things for Mr. Watson's medicines? - Yes.

Where did he compose them? - In my presence, before the fire; I believe I have some now of the very same that he made.

Did he make them in the presence of the patient? - He did: I never knew what house he used; but I knew he went to public-houses to get his money, a guinea, half a guinea, or fifteen shillings.

He was a very studious young man? - Very studious as to learning.

He was not addicted to drinking or smoking? - I never heard him swear, nor ever saw him drunk.

Did he smoke? - He did smoke sometimes.

What at home? - Yes.

You and he used to smoke together? - I never smoked or chewed.

You never made any objection to his smoking? - Never; he took it for the toothach.

Did he smoke a pipe most nights when he went to bed? - No, Sir, not most nights, only now and then; but if there was strong beer and small together, he used to drink small.

He drank small beer with his pipe to chuse? - Yes; when he wanted any beer, he used to fetch it from the chandler's shop.

Of course, as you never objected to his smoking, you never could have told any body that you did not like his smoking? - Not I; I said to nobody but himself; I said to him, you are a young man, why do you smoke? Oh, says he, it does my teeth good.

That was all the objection you made? - Yes.

You never told any body else? - I might say, that is a silly boy to smoke so young.

You never said that to Mr. Watson, did you? - Not that I know of.

Then this young man was not driven to go out, because you did not like he should smoke at home? - That he was not.

Did not you think that he staid at this White-horse cellar? - He staid too long, I thought.

Did you know much of his patients, orthe company he kept? - I knew little of them, I never troubled myself with them; I never saw Flindall, nor Lowe, nor Barnard, till this affair.

Do you know a person of the name of Towse? - Yes, I do.

What is he? - He is a buckle-maker: I know his father; he is beadle of Joiners-hall; the father is a man of some property.

Have you ever had any conversation with Towse, the father, as to the time your son came home on the morning of the fire? - I never have, since this was talked of.

But before this was talked of, and before your son was accused, upon your oath, have not you mentioned to Mr. Towse the time your son came home that morning? - Upon my oath, I never did.

Then you never said to Mr. Towse, that your son did not come home that morning till four o'clock? - I never told him so to my knowledge.

You swear that positively? - Yes, Sir, I will; I only told him, since this accident happened, that I was sorry to hear that he was accused of any such thing.

That you swear positively? - Positively.

You mean to stand by that? - I never told him in my life.

Neither before your son was accused, nor since? - I do not know what I might have told him since; it might be four in the morning.

Did not you tell him that your son was not at home when you went to bed, and that you was sorry to say he did not return till four in the morning? - I never did, to the best of my knowledge.

Now I tell you, Mr. Towse is here. - Why I may talk about something or other, and I might say I cannot tell what time it was.

Upon a subject where your son's life was at stake, might you be holding idle conversations; did you not say so, upon your oath? - I cannot remember any such thing.

Will you swear you did not say so; upon your oath, is it true that this young man had been to bed that night? - Yes, Sir, he certainly had.

Upon your oath, did you tell Towse he had not been to bed? - I did not tell him he had, or had not, to the best of my knowledge; I cannot swear I did, or did not.

Which way shall I take it? - You may take it which way you please.

Then, in conversation with Towse, you may have said that your son was not at home when you went to bed, and that you was sorry to say he did not come home till four in the morning? - When I went to bed, we went to bed together.

Will you swear positively you never said so to Towse? - I cannot swear positively to any such thing.

What liquor did you and Mr. Watson drink together, while you were waiting the return of your son? - Not one spoonful of any thing that I know of, never drank a drop, neither spirits nor liquors, of any sort; that I can swear.

Do you know a man of the name of Samuel? - I do not know him any farther than this: when the woman declared that my son was innocent, and said she did not know him, before Alderman Skinner, Mr. Towse was standing by me; I said, I am very glad of it, I should be sorry she should know any thing of him; he is not in their list, however: so afterwards he said, there is a husband of her's; if you please, I will go with you, and hear what he says; for fear that he should have something to say to disturb my mind; so he and I went to an indifferent house in the neighbourhood.

Was not that Mr. Farmer's house? - I do not know whose house it was.

Did you send for Samuel to come to you? - Samuel did come, by the wife's desire.

Did not you send for Samuel? - I did not.

Did not you go there on purpose to see him? - I went to see his wife.

What did you say to the wife? - I asked if her husband was at home, and she said he was; and, if I pleased to come along with her, she would bring me to him: Mr. Towse offered to go; she refused; and when he came in, I said, is your name so and so? he said, yes, what would I have; I said, do you know any thing of one Jobbins; Jobbins,says he to his wife; yes, says she, before Alderman Skinner; no, says he, I do not know him; says she, neither do I know him: I am very glad of it, says I; I would not have him guilty of any such thing for 100 l.: they have since forged a lie, and said I offered 100 l.: this is all that passed.

Did not you say, I am the father of Jobbins, and I shall be very happy if the next time you go up you will be as partial as your wife, to say you do not know any thing of him; no money shall be wanting, any money you please shall be ready? - No, I did not say any such thing; I never said any such thing in the hearing of Towse.

Nor in the hearing of Farmer? - I do not know Farmer.

Did you never say so in the hearing of Towse, Samuel, or Farmer? - I never did; I was very glad they did not know him; for I went to satisfy my mind.

Was your son's library in the same room he compounded his medicines in; where did he keep his books? - In a book-case that cost me sixteen guineas; he had a key of it.

Had he other books in that library besides medical books? - He had his school books; he was six years at St. Paul's school.

Did you hand Mr. Watson < no role > the book, or did he help himself? - The book! the pills.

No, the book? - I never handed him a book in my life.

Did he ever take a book? - He never did.

He had no book the night he was waiting for your son? - If he had, he had it from my son.

If he had, you must have seen it? - I must.

How did you and he while away the time while he was waiting for your son? - Spent our time as any body else would do; sat by the fire-side, and talked: I was reading, I believe, in Quincy's Dispensatory, or some other book; I cannot tell what I was reading.

If any body has said that Watson took a medical book out of the library, that is not true? - I never said so; I don't know what I said; suppose a book laid here, he might take it up and look at it.

He is but an illiterate man? - He is not a conjuror.

He can read, can he? - Yes, he can, and write too; you read law, I read physic; I read what suits me.

How soon after this did your son go to go abroad? - I do not know that.

How long after the fire? - I cannot tell.

Try now, and recollect. - It might be three or four months.

Do you mean to swear that it was? - I cannot say.

Was it three months? - I do not know.

Was it two months? will you swear it was two months? upon your oath, did he not go away? - What signifies whether he did or not; I have no remark of it; God zounds, I cannot keep such things in my mind, I cannot recollect if I was all day about it; I never charge my mind with such things, it was not a thing of such a subject to think of; I cannot tell within a month; I believe, about two months. Swear it! I would not swear any such thing; what occasion is there to swear to that.

I desire to have an answer. - I cannot do it; I believe it was upwards of two months; and it might be three.

Had he any intention of going abroad? - None at all that I know of, except when the war broke out, he said he wished he was able to pass his examination, he would go as surgeon's mate; he was gone as an assistant surgeon; so he told me; I do not mean to swear that it was so.

Do not you know that he went as a common foremast-man? - Yes.

By what name? - George Burne < no role > ; and his reason was, because I should not know he had entered into any regular list; he told me he was going.

Did you find him any medicine-chest to take with him? - I found him a bottle of six or seven pounds worth of antiscorbutic drops, and a few instruments, and a bed and bedding, and shirts and trowsers, and such things, of the best sort.

Do you mean to swear that you knew he had entered by the name of Burne? - I did not know it till he wrote to me, by the name of Burne, for money.

Do you know any relations of Watson's? - He has a mother: she has lived very well in her time.

Had you any dealings with her? - No, Sir; none of any sort: she made me shirts.

How lately? - Never but once.

How many years was that ago? - I believe it is four or five years ago; and sometimes she has mended a trifle; very trifling.

How lately is it she has done any thing to your linen? - She has not earned half-a-crown for these three or four years: I have not given her any thing to do.

She never was a washer woman? - Never: she never took in washing that I know of: I do not know much of her: she might take in washing and I not know it.

If she had washed for you, you would have known it? - Yes, and have told you too: she has washed me a shirt when she has mended it, within these six or eight months; but Watson's wife has washed me two within this week, and mended them; the old woman should have done it, but she was ill; they have not earned five shillings of my money in the whole course of my life, excepting making.

Who is your regular washer woman? - If I can think of the woman's name, I am not here alive; God bless the woman! now you will think that very odd; and I cannot think of her name.

Where does she live? - I cannot tell you that neither; not the name of the street.

What part of the town? - Why, in Goswell-street; just down a court.

Just in your own neighbourhood? - Yes.

During the last four or five years you have not very much visited the Watsons, have you? - I have not been there, I suppose, three times in a twelvemonth, nor three times in three years.

You are sure of that? - I am sure.

That in the course of the last twelve months you have not been there three times? - Yes; I have been there more than that; six times within the last six months: I had three watches.

The business you went upon was your watch? - Yes; no other occasion: he has not earned of me above half-a-crown, or three or four shillings for years past: only cleaning one, and just doing another.

You had no other business there but about your watch? - No other business of any kind: I am no gossiper or visitor.

Mr. Lawes. You was present, I believe, at the first and present examinations? - I was.

Did Mrs. Samuel or not say she knew your son? - At the first she said, she did not know him, and the next time, I believe, she did say, she knew him; for she was asked the question by Mr. Skinner.

"Do you know that young man?"

"No."

"Did not you know the Little Doctor?"

"No."

"What! not know Jobbins!

"look at him again."

"No."

"You

"never saw him in your life?"

"No."

You swear positively that she swore so at the first examination? - She did.

Upon your oath did you ever offer them any money on any occasion? - I never offered them a shilling in my life.

And what you have said about a hundred pounds, was as you have stated it? - Because I would not for a hundred pounds, or ten thousand pounds, that he should have been guilty of such a thing as that.

SAMUEL TOWSE < no role > sworn.

I live No. 2, Lombard-street: a buckle-maker. I have known young Jobbins four years and upwards.

During that time what has been his character for honesty? - All that I knew in the different times he has been at our house, was always good, and like a gentleman.

Was his character that of an honest lad? - I believe so.

Was you present at the examination before the magistrate? - I was at the first and second time.

At the first examination did you hear Mrs. Joseph examined.

Mr. Garrow. I must take your lordship's opinion, whether examinations taken before a magistrate can be got at this way, which are taken in writing?

Court. It is clearly settled, that whatpasses before a magistrate is evidence, unless it is formally taken down, and made an examination, then if you object to the parol evidence, ask the question, whether it was taken in writing.

Mr. Garrow to Mr. Alderman Skinner. Is this the examination taken before you? (Shewing him an examination - If it is signed by me it is; I signed them as they were taken.

Mr. Knowlys. Do you mean to be accurate in your memory, to say, that was all that passed. How many examinations were there of Mrs. Samuel? - Four.

Was there any written examination signed by you, of what passed at the first time? - Not any; but what has been since I have.

Did you sign any examination on the first time she was brought before you? - No, I did not: my lord, it will be necessary to state, that every examination that was on oath was reduced into writing, and signed by me.

Court. What she said I think may be received.

Mr. Knowlys to Mr. Towse. When Alderman Skinner asked her whether she knew that young man, she said, she did not; he asked her again, and a third time, with this addition to her, refresh your memory, do not you know the Little Doctor? she said, I do not; then Alderman Skinner said, then you mean to say, that you do not know him in any thing? and she said, she did not.

Mr. Garrow. How long did you know this lad? - About three or four years.

Did you know him in the life time of Mr. Cowley? - I do not know Mr. Cowley.

The man that he was apprentice to? - I had a very slight knowledge of him; only from hearsay.

Did this young man continue with him till his death? - I cannot tell that; I did not know Mr. Cowley.

In what way has the young man been employed these last four years? - I cannot tell that.

How did he support himself? - I cannot tell that: he has frequently been at our house; him and his father; to see my father; to spend the evenings, and some parts of the day: he was an acquaintance of my brothers.

And yet you did not know how he supported himself, or whether he had any employment or not? - Of my own knowledge I did not.

Did you go to Mr. Farmer? - I did not.

Did you go with Jobbins any where? - To a many places: I never saw Mrs. Samuel in his presence: my father is beadle to the joiners company; my brother is nineteen, an apprentice to Mr. Davenport, nearly opposite Whitechapel church; the prisoner never came in company with any body but his father and my sister; I am pretty sure.

You do not know Flindall? - I never saw him before; I only know him by seeing him at the examinations.

THOMAS BROWNE < no role > sworn.

I know the father of the prisoner Jobbins; he has had a part of my house five years.

What is the character of the young man? - I never heard any thing amiss of him; I only saw him go backwards and forwards to his father; I have not seen him twice for these twelve months; I never heard his character impeached; I am about my business; and the father and they come in in the evening.

Mr. Garrow. Have you any reason in the world to believe that he has been at his father's house for the last six months? - I cannot say either one way or the other, for we have no communication: I have not seen him to my knowledge.

Do you recollect the night of the fire in Aldersgate-street? - I recollect the fire exceedingly well; I was at it: I was considerably alarmed.

Did you see this young man the next morning? - No, Sir; I did not.

Did you ever hear of any library that he had there? - No, Sir.

Or of any patients that he had there? - No, Sir.

Or of any medicines that he compounded there? - No, Sir; Mr. Jobbins has a private door beyond mine.

JOHN ADLEY < no role > sworn.

I am a linen draper in St. James's-buildings. I have known young Jobbins about four years; I never heard any thing against him till this time: he always bore a good character.

EDWARD MORIAH < no role > sworn.

I have known Jobbins seven years, to the best of my knowledge: I never heard any thing amiss of his character.

REBECCA ADLEY < no role > sworn.

I have known him three or four years: I never heard any thing amiss before.

Did he bear a good character? - For any thing I knew: he visited at my father's.

FOR THE PRISONER LOWE.

EDWARD LOWE < no role > sworn.

I am the father of the young man at the bar: I am a turner, No. 8, Bridgewater-gardens: I employed my son, and paid him wages, and did so the whole of the week this fire happened; I paid him that Saturday twenty shillings between nine and ten; I returned home at that time: he does not live with me: he has a wife to support: I know he was at work at eight that Saturday night; because my work was not finished when I went out, which was about eight, and when I returned it was; when I went out, I said to him, Ned, get on with this job for next week; but I did not examine it on my return: he sometimes might earn twenty shillings, twenty-five shillings, thirty shillings, or fifteen shillings a week, just as he pleased.

Mr. Fielding. Do you know who lodged with him? - I understand, Flindall.

Mr. Fielding. I will not ask you any thing more: you may sit down, poor man.

WILLIAM CLUNN < no role > sworn.

I am an engraver and an enameller; I know the prisoner Lowe, and have known him five or six years; I never saw any thing but industry by him; I live opposite to his father, and have seen the prisoner at work early and late; I never heard his character impeached before this.

THOMAS PORTER < no role > sworn.

I live at St. Thomas's, in the Borough: a mathematical instrument maker; the prisoner Lowe was my man, and worked for me a twelve-month ago; I never heard any harm of him, while he was with me; I always reckoned him an honest hard working young man; I have not seen him above once or twice since.

MARY FIELD < no role > sworn.

I live in Cow-lane, Smithfield; I burnish gold and silver plate; I have known him fourteen years, a very honest lad; I never heard any thing to the contrary. I know Flindall's character has been a very general thief; I had an apartment at Flindall's father's twelve years ago, and I quitted the house on account of the bad character of his father and mother.

The Recorder summed up the evidence; when he had finished, Mr. Lowes informed the Court, that there was no description of the local situation of the house; no proof of the parish in which the house was situated: but the objection was over-ruled by the Court, it being sufficient that the house was within its jurisdiction; and besides, that it had been proved by several witnesses, that the house was situate in Aldersgate-street, and the Jury might find the parish of their own knowledge.

The Jury conferred a short time, and without going out of Court, returned their verdict,

EDWARD LOWE < no role > , (Aged 23.) WILLIAM JOBBINS < no role > , (Aged 19.)

GUILTY . Death .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

N. B. < no role > When sentence of Death was passed on the capital convicts, Mr. Recorder thus addressed these two prisoners:

"As to you, Jobbins and Lowe, the two prisoners who have been convicted of arson, I hardly know how to address myself to you; I hardly know how to find words to express the abhorrence that I entertain, or that the publick entertain, of the crime of which you stand convicted. The felting fire to houses, in the dead of the night, for the purpose of plunder, at the risk of the lives of the inhabitants of a great city, is a crime not yet to be met with in the records of villainy that have been brought forward in this Court; and as the crime is singular, so the punishment must be marked, and I trust and hope it will be so marked as to make the example such, that if there should be left any persons of the same bad intentions, they will take warning from your fate; and as your crime has been singularly novel, I hope it will be the only one that will ever appear in a Court of Justice of the same description. You therefore must prepare to die, and consider yourselves as men without hope in this world; and give me leave to assure you, as my decided opinion, that for an offence so heinous as yours is, you never can expect salvation in the world to come, unless you make some reparation to your injured country and the God you have offended, by sincerely confessing all the offences of which you have been guilty, and by making the most open and declared exposition of the names of all persons, who either have engaged, or are about to engage, in crimes so detestable, as those of which you stand convicted."