Old Bailey Proceedings:
Old Bailey Proceedings: Accounts of Criminal Trials

15th September 1784

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Currently Held: Harvard University Library

LL ref: t17840915-15




791. WILLIAM HOGBON proceedingsdefend was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 13th of July last, one gelding, price 6 l. the property of Alexander Milne proceedingsvictim .

ALEXANDER MILNE < no role > sworn.

I lost my gelding on the night between the 12th and 13th of July, from Putney Common , I put a lock upon his foot the night before, with two links of a chain for security, and in the morning about eight I missed my horse; I found it at Homerton on Tuesday morning, a week after I lost it; I found it in possession of one Mr. Webb, who keeps the Spread Eagle there; I brought the prisoner and Mr. Webb face to face, he was taken and was in possession before I found my horse; the prisoner was brought to Webb's by the officer, and the horse was brought out of Webb's stable, and delivered to me while the prisoner was there.

Court. What did Webb say in the prisoner's presence? - He said he bought the horse of the prisoner.

He said that to the prisoner, did he? - Yes.

What did the prisoner say to that? - He did not make any reply, as I recollect.

What is the value of this horse? - Six guineas, it was a poney, about fourteen hands high.

Mr. Garrow, Prisoner's Counsel. How far is Hackney-wick to where you live? - I live at Putney.

Putney Common adjoins to some other commons that are pretty extensive? - Yes.

The poney was a pretty frolick some one, and very fond of rambling? - Yes, he is a young horse.

How long have you had him? - About three months.

Have you used him much? - Not a vast deal.

He was a good deal on the common I take it? - Yes.

This is the fair season, is not it? - Yes.

WILLIAM WEBB < no role > sworn.

I keep the Spread Eagle at Homerton.

Court. Do you know the prisoner? - Yes, your honour.

Look at Alexander Milne < no role > . - Yes, your honour.

Did you ever see Mr. Milne? - Yes, I saw him at my house.

When was it? - To the best of my knowledge it was the 15th or 16th of July, I cannot say which.

Did he own any horse that was then in your possession? - Yes, he did.

Of whom did you buy that horse? - I bought it of that man there.

How long before you saw Milne? - I believe four or five days, or thereabouts.

What did you give for it? - Twenty-five shillings.

It was a good bargain, was not it? - No, I do not think it, not as the horse was; I do not call myself a proper judge of horses, and I got several people to look at it, and they told me it was not worth any more; it was several hours before I bought him.

I suppose it was low in flesh? - It was a glandered horse, and ran at the nose, I thought it such.

I hope you have no other horses, have you? - I have one more, but they told me not to let that horse go with the other in the stable, which I did not.

Now, friend, when Mr. Milne came to your house and challenged this horse, was the prisoner brought to your house? - Yes, he was.

Was the horse produced there before him? - Yes.

Was that the same horse you bought of the prisoner? - Yes.

Mr. Garrow. Where did you buy him, Master Webb? - I bought him at home in our yard, he asked me to let him be put in the stable, I was so busy I could not look at him.

You put him in along with your own Jockey, did you? - No, mine was out at grass.

How long have you kept horses? - How long?

Upon your oath, would you give twenty-five shillings for a glandered horse? - At this time I would, because they fetch more money, dog horses do, than they do in winter. I told the man that I should just fetch up a little rubbish from the marshes, then I would sell him for the dogs.

But you would work him to the bone first, and leave nothing but the bone for the dogs; now, upon your oath, do not you know that the horse was worth five or six pounds? - No, he was not, nor I would not give a halfpenny more for it.

You only wanted to melt him down; you keep a slaughter-house? - No, Sir, I never sold but ten or twenty in my life, and never bought but this one horse in my life.

You are a middle man, between the thief and the boiler, are not you? - No.

Who was you to sell this to, was you to take him to Smithfield? - Yes, Sir, and twenty-eight shillings is often given for a horse there.

Court. I presume you had no doubt at all when Mr. Milne claimed it, it was his property? - Yes, because I heard the prisoner had sold some others, a horse, or a cow.

Court to Prosecutor. You put this horse on the common the night before you missed it? - Yes.

Was it glandered? - Not to my knowledge.

Had the horse a cold? - The horse very lately had a cold; I look upon it he was rode hard the night before, and being off the grass.

What should you have thought would have been the value of the horse? - I gave seven guineas for him in April; and I should be loth to take less for him at this very time.

Has the horse the glanders now? - I am not a judge, but I do not think he has.

THOMAS SELLS < no role > sworn.

Where do you live? - At Hackney.

What are you? - I am a baker, I live with one Mr. Gigney, a baker at Hackney.

Do you know anything about this horse? - I know nothing about the horses; I took the prisoner the 18th of July, at Hackney, about ten o'clock.

Was you with him at Webb's at Homerton? - Yes, Mr. Milne was there.

Was the horse brought first in the prisoner's presence? - Yes, and Mr. Webb said to the prisoner, my lad, how came you to sell me this horse, when you know you did not come honestly by it.

What answer did the prisoner make? - I did not hear him make any reply.

PRISONER's DEFENCE.

I have nothing to say; I have no witnesses.

Court to Sells. Do you know any thing of the prisoner? - I bought a horse of him, I never saw him before.

Court to Webb. Do you? - I know the prisoner's uncle, John, he has lived at Hackney many years before me, and I carried his goods up to Highgate, where he moved; I once before saw the prisoner, and he told me when he came to sell this horse, he had come out of the country for a little debt.

GUILTY , Death .

Court. I think it proper to try him upon the other indictments.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GOULD.




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