294. JOHN BURNE proceedingsdefend , (aged 13) WILLIAM JOHNSON proceedingsdefend , (aged 13) and JOSEPH TOZO proceedingsdefend , (aged 14) were indicted for feloniously assaulting James Butler proceedingsvictim , on the King's highway, on the 14th of February last, and putting him in fear and danger of his life, and feloniously taking from his person and against his will, one hat, value two shillings, his property .

The witnesses examined apart at the request of the Prisoners.

JAMES BUTLER < no role > sworn.

I am sixteen the 10th of next September; I am but small of my age.

Court. What have you to say against these three boys? - I live in Wells-street, Rosemary-lane; I had but just come out of my own door, on the 14th of February, between seven and eight in the evening; I was coming up Lemon-street , and these three lads were walking on, and I passed them, and they called out Jack, Tom. and Will. one said to another, come here, I want to speak to you; they overtook me, and Burne said, you buggar, your life or your money, he laid hold of my collar, and I had no money, and Tozo laid hold of my coat that was over my arm, which I was carrying to my uncle, and they made a snatch at it, but I held it so fast they did not get it: Johnson took away my hat, and put this hat on my head; I cried out murder! and they let go the coat and run away; Burn held up a candlestick, bottom upwards, to cut me down with.

Court. What are you? - I live in Wells-street, my father works at the chalk walk, he did serve seven years to the sea.

How long was it before these boy s were taken up? - I cried stop thief! and Burn was stopped; a fat lusty gentleman stopped him, I cannot tell his name; the other two got off; they were taken the next morning.

Did you know them before? - No.

Are you sure of them now? - Yes.

Who directed you what to do in this prosecution, my boy ? - Nobody.

Whose advice did you act under? - Nobody's.

What justice of the peace did you apply to? - Mr. Staples.

Which of his runners took these boys up? - Mr. Platt and Mr. Mathews.

Did not they tell you what you were to do, and what you were to say? - No, Sir, the same words I have told you now, I told Mr. Staples.

Court. Are there any depositions returned.

(The depositions banded up.)

Did you swear positively to the other two boys before the justice? - Yes.

Are you sure of that? - Yes.

Recollect yourself; did you say so at first at the justice's? - No, Sir, I said I believed they were the two boys.

Court. That is well recollected; then what makes you sure since? - I do not know.

Who has made you sure since? - Nobody.

How come you to be surer at this distance of time than you were a fortnight ago? - I am partly sure they are the two boys by their faces and their clothes.

Do you know the consequences if you swear falsly upon your oath? - Yes.

What is it? - I should suffer in this world, and in the next the torment of hell fire.

After these two boys were taken up, did you see them before they were examined at the justices? - Yes.

The officer shewed them to you, did not he? - No.

Who then? - Nobody, I knew them as soon as I came in at the door.

Did the officer tell you what reward there would be in convicting these boys? - No.

Do not you know now? - No.

Take care what you say; do not you know now what reward will be paid if these three boys are convicted? - I do not.

Do not you know there is a reward? - I know there is a reward, but I do not know what reward.

Who told you of it? - I heard of it by the people that lives in our house; Burn's mother said there would be money for them, and that was what I wanted to do them for, or else I did not know it; I heard Mr. Staples say, (it was read over in a paper while I was there) it was something about forty pounds; I do not know whether it was for my father being bound over or not.

Did not Mathews tell you so, nor Platt, nor Dorman? - No, Sir.

What did they say when they first came up to you, and first overtook you? - Burn said, you buggar, your life or your money, he laid hold of my collar with his right hand, and held up the candlestick with his left hand, bottom upwards.

You have recollected that; you did not mention that before? - No, Sir, I did not.

Have not you said, that if you did convict these boys, you would get some money by them? - No.

Did you never hear your mother say so? - Never.

Who pays the expences of this prosecution? - I have no money, nor my mother has no money.

Who pays the expences of this indictment; which of the officers paid for it? - Mr. Mathews paid for it? -

JOHN PLATT < no role > sworn.

I belong to Mr. Staples's Office; I know this, that the boy came in, and nominates as this, that he had been robbed of his hat; he came in to the Rotation about half after seven this day fortnight at night.

Did any body come in with him? - There was a lusty gentleman came in with him, and had hold of the prisoner Burn; says he, I am not a going to let you go, do not you think it; the boy went up and had a hearing, and when he came down, I spoke to one of the runners, says I, Charles, I know Bandy, that is Johnson.

How came you to know any thing of him? - Because he nominated in this, that Johnson was one of them.

What account did the prosecutor give of this? - He never said a word to me.

Then how did you know what the charge was? - By the hearing it read in the Rotation.

Who did you hear it from? - From Butler, in the outer box; I never went night him, he never said any thing at all to me.

Why are you so afraid that he should be supposed to have said any thing to you, when you was not asked it? - The meaning was as this, this Burn says, says he, I shall be admitted an evidence, says he, it is a boy in a black coat.

What account did the boy Butler give of the robbery when he first came in? - Only what I heard in the box, I heard him say as this here, that it was Burne, Tozo, and Johnson; and that Burne was the person that took and stopped him.

Upon your oath? - Yes.

Did he give an account what they did to him? - I did not see the affair.

I am not asking you that, you know I am not; I am asking you whether Butler gave an account of what they had done to him? - No further than nominating that it was them three that stopped him.

Did you tell him how he was to conduct this prosecution? - I never mentioned a word to him.

Who pays the expence of this prosecution? - Not me.

Do not you know who does? - We agreed to pay it between us, me, and Mathews, and Dorman.

How much are you to receive, if, upon your evidence, these three boys are convicted? - I do not suppose I have paid above three shillings in all.

Sir, do you mean that as an answer to my question; are you deaf? - No.

Then how dare you answer in that manner; I ask you, what are you to receive, if, upon your evidence, these three boys are convicted? - I do not desire one farthing, I do not know how much I am entitled to.

What are you? - I work at my business, I am a carpenter.

Have you never taken up any body for a highway robbery, or a footpad robbery? - Never in my life.

And do not you know what you are entitled to upon the conviction of the prisoners? - Indeed, rightly, I do not.

Rightly! Sir; upon your oath do not you know? - I have heard it is forty pounds, but not that I want it.

Then three forties is one hundred and twenty pounds, if these three boys are convicted.

JAMES MATHEWS < no role > sworn.

I am one of the beadles of Whitechapel, when we have prisoners locked up we are obliged to attend the justice; on the 15th of February, the Sunday morning, Mr. Platt brought in Johnson as a charge into the watch-house; I was not at the Office the evening before.

You was not? - No, I was not; Burne said there were Johnson, and he, and Tozo, in company together in Lemon-street; that they stopped the boy with a candlestick, and said, you bloody dog, your life or your money.

Did not Burne say he was to be admitted an evidence? - He never told me so; Mr. Platt told me that he was to be admitted an evidence.

Then I shall not hear what he said; do you know any thing more of it? - No.

Who pays the expence of this prosecution? - When we went to prefer the bill, I said to him, have you got the money to pay for the bill; Mr. Johnson said, you must pay for the bill, you will have it paid you again; I told him says I, it is hard for me to pay it if the boy is not here, but I must prefer a bill to save my own recognizance.

And how much are you to receive if these boys are convicted? - I do not do it for that, I am bound.

Did Mr. Johnson tell you that you was to pay for the indictment? - Yes, Sir, upon my oath.

I advise you to be careful in that, I do not want to entrap you? - He told me to pay it and I should be paid it again.

Upon your oath, Sir, did not you carry the indictment to him with the money? - He said two shillings, says I to the boy have you two shillings, he said, no, he had not got a farthing; then Mr. Johnson said, you pay it, and it will be returned to you again.

CHARLES DORMAN < no role > sworn.

I belong to Mr. Staples's Office, when the little boy came in, I did not take much notice of him, seeing a lusty man had hold of his arm, and he desired me to take charge of the middle prisoner, because he could not stay.

What did the prosecutor say in your hearing? - I cannot recollect; we go through a little place that is dark, and I thought I heard him say here is something dropped, or a candlestick dropped; I had then the boy in charge, it was this candlestick, he gave it to a man that draws beer at our house, and he gave it to me; I did not see it picked up.

What did Butler accuse the boys of? - Of robbing him, he said they had stopped him, and put the candlestick up to his head, and said your life or your money; then he told me that two of them ran under a gateway, and one ran over the way, and he said he thought it was best to pursue where there where two, and then he should have the chance of catching one.

Where was Platt then, was he by? - He might be in the tap-room for what I know.

Did the boy tell you the names of the boys that had stopped him? - Not to my knowledge he never told me, I knew it from Burne; after Burne was committed for further examination, he begged me to go up to the justice and get him admitted an evidence; Mr. Staples said, he did not think he could do it, because the prosecutor swore so positively to him; after he had had a hearing he told me their names.

Where is this lusty gentleman? - He went away directly.

Where does Burne live? - I do not know.

Where does Johnson live? - I do not know, I heard that Tozo was to be found in a public house in Salt-petre Bank, I went there at night to look for him, but I did not find him, I do not know where any of them live.

Who advised the boy to prosecute them? - I do not know that any body advised him, I have not.

Who paid for this prosecution? - I do not know, I have not paid any thing, nor I shall pay nothing at all to any body.

Have you agreed to pay any part of the expence? - No.

Then it is not true that Matthews, and Platt, and you, agreed to pay the expence between you? - I never told them I would pay any thing, when the bill was preferred I was not there.

PRISONER BURNE's DEFENCE.

I was running along very fast, with that candlestick from my aunt's to my mother's, and some man stopped me, I do not know him from Adam, he carried me to a Justice, I know the prosecutor, I have played with him many times, and know his father and mother to be very poor, and I know he does this for the money; his father and mother were obliged to pawn their things to find the indictment, these runners told him he would have the money for us, and they would maintain him; I know nothing of these other two boys; my mother keeps a chandler's shop in Bell-yard, Whitechapel.

Court to James Butler < no role > . Did you know Burne before this? - I never saw him before in my life to my knowledge.

- BOWEN sworn.

Court. Who brought this indictment to Mr. Johnson? - Matthews, he paid me for the indictment.

Matthews. I paid Mr. Johnson.

Bowen. I am very clear from my memory that this man absolutely paid me the money, and seemed very eager to have the indictment, and there was not a syllable mentioned by Mr. Johnson, I am well convinced, of its being allowed him again, not a jota at the time.

Matthews. I will prove my innocence in this; the instructions were brought I believe by Mr. Platt to Mr. Staples's office, and were given to Mr. Johnson to draw up the bill of indictment, when I went in, I asked if it was ready, and he went, and struck the thing that they cut it with, says I, I will give you a bit of lead: Mr. Johnson received the money, and asked the boy for the money, and the boy said, I have none.

Court to Bowen. Is that true? - I never heard any such conversation save as to the lad.

JOHN BURNE < no role > , WM. JOHNSON, JOSEPH TOZO < no role > ,

NOT GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.