Old Bailey Proceedings:
Old Bailey Proceedings: Accounts of Criminal Trials

5th December 1781

About this dataset

Currently Held: Harvard University Library

LL ref: t17811205-33




39. RICHARD ISAACS proceedingsdefend was indicted, for that he upon the 17th of November last, upon the King's highway, in and upon ANDREW DOUGLAS proceedingsvictim , Esq . did make an assault, and in corporal fear and danger of his life did put, and one watch, the outside case made of gold, and the inside case of silver gilt with gold, with seals set in gold and key, &c. and one guinea, from his person and against his will, did take and carry away .

ANDREW DOUGLAS < no role > , Esq. sworn.

When did this happens? - Upon the 17th of November.

About what time of the day or night? - About seven in the evening.

Relate the manner of it? - About seven in the evening, my wife and I were going in a coach towards the upper part of Grosvenor square , the west end, the coachman was stopt by a man on horseback, who called out with vehemence, that the window should be let down, and demanded our money, he had a pistol in his hand as to appearance.

You say as to appearance only, could you see whether he had a pistol or not? - He had something that appeared like a pistol in his hand, he appeared so, and demanded our money, or threatened to blow us to the devil, that was his expression. I gave him a guinea, but he was not satisfied with that, and said he must have more; upon my telling him, I could give him no more, he required my watch, which after some hesitation I gave him. He then came to my wife and presented the pistol as I thought he had, and demanded her purse and watch; I was exceedingly alarmed for her, she was like to faint, so I begged she m ight give him what she had directly that we might get rid of him, which she did; and after that he went off, no more passed between us.

He was not immediately taken then? - No.

I see when you make use of the word pistol, you repeat the expression as you thought; do you mean by that there was not sufficient light for you to say with certainty, there was a pistol or not? - Certainly.

It was from not distinctly seeing he had a pistol? - It was so.

How soon after was he taken? - This was upon Saturday night, I was sent for upon Monday morning, my watch was stopped, and the pawn-broker with whom it was pawned, was at the office in Bow-street; they issued hand-bills, in consequence of which they were informed of it.

Was there more than one man when the coach was stopped? - No, not as I know of; when I came there I found a man who appeared as a witness with my watch at the office; his name was Woods.

Are you sure the watch Woods had was your's? - I am pretty sure it was; in consequence of something that passed upon the information of Wood, he was taken.

Cross-Examination.

This was in the evening, about seven; it was dark you might not see, so that you could not possibly distinguish the pistol, you could only judge from his expressions? - It might be a pistol or piece of wood, it was something appearing like a pistol, which I had no reason to doubt was a pistol.

You know nothing more of it? - No.

JOHN WOOD < no role > sworn.

Produces a watch. Upon the 17th of November, about nine o'clock in the evening the prisoner offered this to pledge it.

You are a pawn-broker? - Yes.

Where? - In Princes-street, Soho; he wanted to borrow a guinea and a half upon it, I asked whose watch it was, he said it was his own; I asked him where he got it, he said it was his father's watch, his father left it to his brother, and each of them 30 l. and his brother made him a present of it.

What time was this? - About nine o'clock in the evening.

I was not satisfied with that account, I then asked his name, he said his name was Thomas White < no role > ; I asked where he lived, he lived at Mr. Haye's, No. 18, Adam-street, in the Adelphi; I asked him how long he had lived there, he said near two years, but he had had this watch ever since he had been there. I then asked if any servants in the house knew of his having the watch, he said there was the butler and two or three of the servants, all knew it very well. I then proposed sending a man down to his master's house to inquire, he said he had no objection, he would go with the person I chose to send, or he would stay at our house till the person returned. I then asked him where he lived before he went to Mr. Haye's, he said he lived in Harley-street, Cavindish-square, with Mr. Fordyce the banker.

Upon his giving me so clear an account, induced me to lend him the money he wanted upon it, supposing it might be his own.

What did you lend him? - A guinea and a half. Upon Monday morning I received a hand bill from the public office in Bow-street, that this watch had been taken upon the highway on Saturday night, in consequence of which I gave immediate information to the office, with the particulars that passed upon Saturday night, and described his person; and in consequence of telling them he lived with Mr. Fordyce, which I believe led to the discovery.

How long was the man that pledged the watch with you? - I suppose a quarter of an hour.

Did you take any particular notice of his face and person while with you? - I am perfectly sure that is the same man, I have no doubt at all, my shop was light enough to distinguish him.

Jury. What dress was he in? - The same he is in now.

Cross-Examination.

Pray, Mr. Wood, did you ever see the prisoner before that evening? - No.

What reason have you to think it was nine o'clock when he came to your house? - I am pretty sure it was, I will not say to a quarter of an hour.

Is there no obscurity in your shop, places where people go in obscurity? - There is such places.

Had you any suspicion upon your mind? I had. It is extremely usual for persons of the best characters and most fair dealings, to pawn things in a-different name from their own; people don't always give us the right name, it is our duty to inquire.

Is it not also usual to give wrong directions? - Sometimes they do, sometimes not.

Have you not from your own knowledge, received things from people with a wrong direction as well as a wrong name? - Yes.

The watch shown to the prosecutor.

Is that your watch, Mr. Douglas? - Yes, Sir, it is the watch, I am sure of it; it is a stop watch, the name is Delander; I don't know the number.

To Wood. Has that watch been under lock and key all the time? - No doubt; I can swear it is the watch I had of him.

Was it kept among other watches? - No.

Mr. PROTHERO sworn.

I was at the public office when the pawn-broker brought the watch there, when he was relating about stopping the watch, I desired him to describe the man to me; I asked him if he had been to the Adelphi to inquire whether he lived there, he said yes, and there was no such person.

To Wood. Did you go? - I did by order of the clerks of the office, there was no such person.

To Prothero. Did he describe the person of the man? - He did, and his voice as clear as could be; it struck me who was the man, I found he lived in St. Giles's, at a stable-yard, upon some inquiry I made about Grosvenor-square and that way.

Where was he taken? - At the yard where he lived, I believe it is the King's-head, he is something of an under hostler at the stable-yard, I found him in the yard, I was present when he was taken; told him what he was taken for, and I sent for his master and mistress, he denied it, his master said he had been a good servant; I said I would not give any trouble to go to the office, I would go with him to the pawn-broker's. His living in service there made be think he was not the man, and indeed I had not seen him for a year and a half; his master came with us, his master and I went into the shop first, and he followed us, he came in without making any words, as soon as he came in all the three pawn-brokers said you have got the man. I went to the pawn-broker's with the duplicates of the other watches that we found in his pockets or in his box. Still I had a doubt in my mind about this man's guilt, and remained so till he owned he had the watch in my hearing to Doctor Douglas.

Was there any offer to him to confess? - No, my lord, he said there was a man named Tom, with a silver laced hat sent it to him, after he owned he had it; but he could give no account who that person was.

Cross-Examination

Is it not remarkable as you had not seen the man a year and a half, you should know him so well? If it had been a dozen years it would make no difference.

Is it not remarkable you should fix upon him? - His description was he lived with Mr. Fordyce, and he had lived with Mr. Fordyce.

Foreman of the Jury. There was a circumstance came out about finding some duplicates of other watches, that does not relate to this, I beg there may not be any questions asked about that.

Mr. Recorder. So far it is evidence, that if at the time a prisoner is taken, a number of suspicious things are found upon him, as in the case of a person charged with house-breaking; if you find a number of iron keys, crows, and dark lanthorns, if they are found upon a person after taken, it throws a general suspicion, and weighs as much in one scale, as a good character does in the other, and is evidence of the situation of the person taken. It will not be right to enquire how they come into his possession, that would be enquiring into things that he cannot be prepared to make any defence to.

DOYLE sworn.

Deposed that the mare the prisoner had was delivered to him upon the Monday night, and he looked upon it as a gift, to sell it or keep it, or do as he pleased with it.

(The Prisoner said nothing in his defence, but called George Clark < no role > , Thomas Slack < no role > , - Smith, Edward Harris < no role > , - Scott, all of whom gave him a very good character, and he then called his Mistress, whose evidence being material, is given in full.)

Mrs. BUTCHER sworn.

You are wife to Mr. Butcher where this man lived? - Yes.

What is his character? - A very honest servant, he has been intrusted with a great deal of money, and always behaved very honestly; I could have pawned my life for his honesty; I never suspected him; he lived with us at the time he was taken.

Do you know any thing of him the Saturday evening? - He was in his business, and in the yard about seven or eight, they have done their business at seven, sometimes towards eight; I can't speak to where he was afterwards, he was in his work at that time.

Do you take upon your oath to say, he was in the yard about seven o'clock? - He certainly must be there.

Court. If I understand her rightly, she can't speak positively he was in his work; you don't speak from distinct recollection of that particular evening? - Yes; he was at his work that evening, and went away with the rest.

ACQUITTED .

Tried by the First Middlesex Jury, before Mr. RECORDER.




View as XML