451. MARY MURRELL proceedingsdefend This name instance is in set 1385. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . was indicted for feloniously stealing on the 9th of April , thirty-nine yards of silk lace, value 3 l. 3 s. the property of John Hatton proceedingsvictim , privily in his shop .

The witnesses examined apart at the request of Mr. Garrow, prisoner's Council.

JOHN HATTON < no role > sworn.

I live at No. 34, Oxford-street , and am a haberdasher and stay-maker ; the prisoner came into my shop on the 9th between eleven and twelve at noon, she asked to look at a hat, I shewed her one; the next thing she asked to look at, was some lace to trim it with, a single edge lace, she could not determine on any one; then she asked to look at some black and white ribband, I shewed her some, she pitched on one; there was but two yards and a half, she wanted three yards; I gave her a pattern of another ribband, and served her with some needles; she asked me to give her change for a guinea, I said I could not, she said she was only going to the next shop to buy butter, and might get change there, she had a plate in her hand; I bid her take the needles and the pattern of the ribband with her; she returned in about five minutes, and said she could not get any butter; I asked her why; she said nobody answered her; she wanted to look at the lace over again, she had changed her mind, and would have a double edged lace; I was shewing her these double edged laces; the man came out of my back shop, and detected her with having a card of lace about her.

Court. In what manner did he detect her? - He came in and said, Madam, I believe you have a card of lace; she said, what do you mean by that, I have no card of lace, she took her plate and wanted to be off, and in the scuffle the card of lace dropped from her.

Court. Did you see it drop from her? - It could not drop from any body else.

In what manner did you see it drop? - I saw it on the ground, dropped from her as I suppose.

Jury. Was the card of lace close to her feet? - Yes.

How near? - Right under her feet, my passage is but very small, it might be a quarter of a yard from her, she was partly over it, it was just at the edge of her petticoats.

How near is that to the compter? - My passage is not quite four feet, therefore it must be pretty close to the compter; I had but one shutter down, it was Good Friday.

Where were you when you saw the card laying on the ground? - I was looking from behind the compter at the struggle between the man and her.

Court. Then it was that that drew your attention? - Yes, Sir.

Then you did not look particularly before that? - No.

Was this card of lace laying opposite to where the shutter was open, or at a distance from it? - At a distance from it.

The shutter was open and down from the end from the door? - Yes.

Then there was no opening from the compter to the floor of the shop where the card of lace was laying? - No.

How was the woman dressed at the time? - She had the same cloak on as she has now, I supposed her to be a neighbour, I knew her by sight perfectly well.

Was the card of lace open, or in what state? - Not opened at all, it was pinned, the boxes were put on the compter, but the laces were not taken out, not all of them, they were put into the boxes again.

Could the card of lace catch to her cloak, or clothes? - I think it almost impossible.

What passed afterwards? - I took her into the parlour, and two women in my house rummaged her, and nothing was found upon her, not even a halfpenny in money.

You are sure she asked you for change before? - Yes.

And she had no money? - None at all.

What did she say in respect to this card of lace? - She begged my pardon, and went down on her knees, and hoped I would forgive her, and that she never did any thing of the like before.

Mr. Garrow, Prisoner's Council. You say she was rummaged before by these two women? - Yes, Sir.

There was no money found on her? -

She told you she could not pay you without change? - Yes; she said the cheese-monger would not open the door to her; I do not know what she might do when she was out of my shop.

Did she not appear at first a good deal alarmed? - She was alarmed at the first moment.

A good deal, as any other honest woman must be; being so alarmed, she begged your pardon, and went down on her knees? - Yes.

Might not one of these cards accidentally catch to her cloak, which you see is a large one; was it not extremely possible that the confined way in which the card was shewn, it might have fallen off? - Yes.

The shutters of your shop windows were all shut? - Yes, I have a glass door to that passage.

So that the whole light that you had in order to shew those goods by, and in order to make all the observation necessary on the subject was that that came from the shop door? - Yes.

Your first attention was attracted by the struggle between the man and the woman, the man charged her with having a card of lace, consequently you did not observe at that time the compter? - I saw my boxes were safe, I put them behind the shutter at the time the struggle was, I did not look befoee the strugle.

So that whether the Card of Lace might have been dropped there, from her first going out or after you cannot say? - I saw it on the floor.

You cannot affect to say it droped from her unless by supposition? - I did not see it drop from her.

This passage was vastly confined? - Yes.

Court. Where was the man that observed her? - In the back shop.

Is there any glass there? - No, it is a shop in the yard.

How could he tell she had a card of lace? - It was from the information of my woman servant, she was standing at the door that looks into the shop on one side of her.

MARY BAGWELL < no role > sworn.

I am servant to Mr. Hatton, I remember the prisoner being in my master's shop, I was scowering the parlour, and my master was shewing some single edged black lace, and there was some conversation which I did not mind, but I heard her ask for some double edged lace, she said she thought it would be better sewed on and plaited in half plaits, I went and stood at the parlour door even with the shop, there was nobody in the shop besides, I could see my master and this woman, she could not see me, I saw her take her hand and take a card of lace out of the box and put it down on the ompter, my master turned himself round to reach the doubled edged lace, and she clapped her right hand on this card and concealed it under her cloak.

Did you see her do that? - Yes.

You are sure you saw her do that? - Yes, I did, then I went up stairs to my master's son and told him.

Mr. Garrow. Never mind what you told him, you was scowering the back parlour? - Yes.

Not attending to what you told us what you saw passing in the shop? - No.

How is it then that you know all this about hats and single edged lace and double edged lace? - As hearing her and not being a common thing, I got up and stood up at the door.

What is there so uncommon in asking for double edged lace? - There was an edging to be sewed upon it, she was looking upon the singled edged lace.

How could you know that? - I heard what the woman said.

I fancy you scower in a very different way from the rest of your sex, they generally make a noise? - Yes, but when I heard I got up and looked.

The shop door was pretty dark, was not it? - No, it was not.

What light had it? - The sun light over the door, and the shop door it was almost as light as this Court.

You saw this woman take up a card of lace, did not she take up many? - Yes.

And she treated this the same as the rest? - No, she did not.

JOHN DALLISON < no role > sworn.

I came into the shop, the prisoner was in great confusion, and said she had no card of lace, presently I saw the lace drop from under her cloak.

You saw it? - Yes, Sir, I did.

Mr. Garrow. Might it not be brushed down by the cloak? - No, because at that part of the compter there was no lace, I did not struggle with her at the time, I only questioned her.

But before the lace dropped you had a struggle? - No, I insisted upon her staying there.

Is not it true that she has two or three children, and one at her breast now? - I do not know.

The prisoner called one witness who gave her a good character, and said she had five children.

GUILTY Of stealing but not privately .

She was humbly recommended by the Prosecutor.

Fined 1 s. and imprisoned three months in Newgate .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury, before Mr. RECORDER.