33. MARY MURRELL proceedingsdefend This name instance is in set 1385. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . was indicted for feloniously stealing on the 24th of October last, sixty-eight yards of black silk lace, value 15 l. the goods of John Brown proceedingsvictim , and - Pope proceedingsvictim , privily in their shop .

JOHN BROWN sworn.

On Friday the 24th of October, about eight in the morning, William Podd < no role > , another witness, came to my house to receive some money, he brought with him a piece of black lace, and asked me the value of it, Podd deals in china and other things, I do not know what business he calls himself; when he shewed me the lace, he had several times before brought laces to me to ask me the value of them, and when I have told him, he said he could buy them much cheaper, I thought he might have bought this on the same score, I told him it was worth six shillings and sixpence per yard, he then told me he could sell it for five shillings, and if he bought it for four shillings and ninepence, whether it would be a bargain, I told him it really would, the matter dropped for the present, I mentioned it at breakfast to my partner, that Mr. Podd had been there with a piece of the same lace we had some of, I asked him if he should buy it of him, he said why should we, we had a piece of it in the box; Podd did not receive the money when he came before, and he came again between eleven and twelve, and Mr. Pope and me were both in the shop, I desired Podd to shew the lace to Mr. Pope, he said he had left it at home, but he would go and fetch it, I said he need not, I would shew Mr. Pope the same, I ordered one of my servants to give me the box of black lace, I took it up, and then missed this piece of lace.

Court. Then you supposed that you had in your box a piece of the same sort of lace with that Podd had shewn you, but upon looking into the box you missed it? - Yes, I then said to Podd, this is our lace, if it is says Mr. Podd, I will tell you the length of it, O says I, I will tell you the length presently, I went to the invoice book and saw the length of it corresponded with the lace, Podd then fetched that lace, he lives in Bell Savage-yard, Ludgate-hill, he brought it to our house, the piece of lace he fetched was ours; Mr. Pope says this is our lace, you must tell us where you got this lace.

Court. Did you charge Podd as suspecting him? - No, my Lord, we called upon him to declare where he got it.

WILLIAM PODD < no role > sworn.

I live in Bell Savage-yard, I am a haberdasher and dealer in china, I sell to the china trade, I do not keep any shop, I keep my goods at home, I was apprentice to the haberdashery, and my wife minds the millinery business; on the 16th of October I went to Mrs. Banks's shop behind the New Church in the Strand, she keeps an open piece broker's shop, with a deal of lace in the window, and I called in there, and she shewed me a pattern of a very fine grounded black lace, she asked me what I thought I could give for it, I told her I could not tell unless I saw it, she said she had seen it, and it was a very good made one, and she said she would sell it to me for a penny a yard profit, she said she would shew it me in the afternoon, I saw this piece of lace, and from the description she gave of it, I thought I might buy it, I gave her four shillings a yard, she said she gave three shillings and eleven pence, or near it, and for the sake of turning a penny she could sell it for that small profit; I bought another piece of her that same day, and gave her twenty pence a yard for that; I have frequently seen laces in the window with a ticket to them, which led me to go into the shop, sometimes I thought them very dear, I have been in that line, I travelled for a capital shop some years ago.

Did not this appear to you extremely cheap? - No, it did not, I shewed it to the trade, and I offered it for five shillings, I offered it to Mr. Collier in Holborn, at the bottom of the hill, he keeps a large haberdasher's shop; on the twenty-fifth, I went to Mr. Brown's house at eight in the morning, and told him I had got a fine lace, and should be much obliged to him to tell me the worth, I asked him if he thought it dear at four shillings and nine pence, he said he thought it cheap. I said if he would give me five shillings, for three pence a yard profit, I would sell it him.

Court. Was that true? - No, it was not true, but I did not know that a tradesman was obliged to tell his profits.

No, but you was not obliged to tell him false, every man is bound to tell the truth if he tells his profit at all.

How long have you dealt with this Mrs. Banks? - Not a great while, sometimes I have looked at the window and seen lace with a ticket to it at such a price, sometimes I have bought some twelve or fourteen yards, no particular length.

You have had this lace in your possession then from the 16th of October to the 24th.

Court to Mr. Brown. It struck you when this lace was produced by Podd that it was a lace of the same sort that you had in your box, how long before had you seen this lace in your box? - The 4th of October my partner had it with him on a journey, and returned to town on the 3d with that lace, it was then in that box, I did not tell your lordship that the lace cost me eight shillings per yard.

Had Podd been at your house between the 4th and 24th of October? - I had not seen him.

Do you know any thing of the prisoner? - I do not of my own knowledge.

Do you know any thing of this Mrs. Banks? - Not till I went to her house.

The lace that was so produced by Podd, have you it here? - Yes.

By what circumstance do you know it to be yours? - It is a lace of a particular texture, and a particular pattern, and very uncommon.

Was there any shop mark or private mark upon it when it was brought to you by Podd? - Not that I saw.

Might there not be other lace of the same texture and pattern at other shops? - It is possible the length and pattern and texture corresponded with my own lace.

You examined your books, I think you say, to see that the length corresponded, and the length corresponded exactly? - Yes, it was twenty-seven yards and an half.

Do you mean it was nearly about that measure or exactly that measure? - It was either twenty-seven yards and an half or three quarters.

The remainder of this Trial in the next PART which will be Published in a few Days.

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE KING's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery for the CITY of LONDON AND ALSO The Gaol Delivery for the County of Middlesex; HELD AT JUSTICE HALL in the OLD BAILEY, On Wednesday the 10th of DECEMBER, 1783, and the following Days;

Being the FIRST SESSION in the Mayoralty of The Right Hon. ROBERT PECKHAM < no role > , Esq; LORD MAYOR < no role > OF THE CITY OF LONDON.

TAKEN IN SHORT HAND BY E. HODGSON, And Published by Authority.

NUMBER I. PART IV.

LONDON:

Printed for E. HODGSON (the Proprietor) And Sold by J. WALMSLAY, No. 35, Chancery Lane, and S. BLADON, No. 13, Pater-noster Row.

MDCCLXXXIII.

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS UPON THE

KING's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery for the CITY of LONDON, &c.

Continuation of the Trial of Mary Murrell < no role > This name instance is in set 1385. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . .

What measure was that lace that was brought to you by Podd? - It was something more than twenty-seven and an half.

Now, though the resemblance of the pattern struck you, you had no suspicion of its being your lace will you missed your lace? - I had not, having known Podd some years.

You have had it in your possession ever since it was bought by Podd? - Mr. Pope has it.

Had you ever any lace of the like pattern and fabrick in your possession before? - Never.

Are black laces of the same length commonly, or do they vary in length? - They vary, there is no certainty at all.

- POPE sworn.

I was present when Podd produced the lace the second time, this is the same piece. I brought it home with me on the 3d of October, I had it in my possession six-weeks before that.

Had Podd been at your shop from the time you came home to the 24th? - Not that I know of.

Had you seen Mrs. Banks? - I never saw her before.

Have you ever seen the prisoner before? - I think I have seen her in the shop, I cannot be positive, but it must have been some months back.

Then you do not recollect having seen her between the time of your coming home and this lace being brought by Podd? - No, Sir.

Do you know that lace? - I have no doubt in the world but it is our lace, it is a remarkable fine lace, I am well acquainted with the pattern, and the length exactly corresponds with our invoice book.

Is there any private mark on it? - It is not upon our card.

Jury. I presume more of the same pattern and fabrick may have been made? - Very likely.

I understood this piece of lace was not seen either by you or your partner, later than the 3d of October, and on the 24th of October Podd brought you this lace, a space of twenty days, is it usual for goods of that nature to lay so long? - O yes Sir! frequently.

Podd. My Lord, Mr. Brown said he had the lace on the 18th, I therefore told him, I supposed it could not be his lace.

Court to Podd. Have you ever taken it off the card, so as to see whether there is any mark on the card.

Podd. I put it on that.

What was upon it when you bought it? - I believe it was on a card covered with paper.

Why did you take it off one and put it on another? - I believe it was too large to put in my pocket, I believe there was more lace on it, I left it to Mrs. Banks's.

Court to Pope. What passed then? - Podd hesitated, he said, he came by it very honestly, he had bought it at a very reputable shop, he would not tell us the name of that shop, he had no right; we went to go to this shop, and we never knew where we were going till we came into Fleet-street; this is the same I had of Podd, it has been in my possession ever since.

Podd. I likewise told Pope and Brown, I had bought lace that morning, if they had lost lace, I would shew it them.

Court to Podd. When did Brown say he had seen the lace? - On the 24th; I think on the morning, or on the next evening, I am not quite clear, I told him I supposed it could not be his lace, for he said, he had it in his shop on Saturday, and shewed it to a lady on Friday; I told him I had had it in my possession ever since the 16th: On the 26th in the morning, he sent his apprentice to my house, to meet him in Bow-street about the fine lace; the boy said, Mr. Brown says, he had it in his house on Saturday, and shewed it to a lady on Friday; Miss Royle, who is now in Court heard Mr. Brown say so.

Court to Brown. Is this true what this man says? - I do not know whether I might not say, I believe I saw it on the Friday.

JANE BANKS < no role > sworn.

Court. What are you? - A milliner and piece broker behind the New Church, in the Strand.

Do you know William Podd < no role > ? - Very well, I have seen him several times.

Do you remember selling him a piece of lace on the 16th of October? - I did.

What price did you sell it at? - For four shillings, I bought it for three shillings and elevenpence.

You have dealt in that business for some time? - Twenty-five years: I bought some fine lace of the prisoner, I was busy, I told her I had not time to look at it, I was afraid it was a died blond, and she left me a pattern.

What is the prisoner? - She has some time dealt in lace and other articles.

Where does she live? - Somewhere by Aldersgate-street, I have known her about ten months. I have bought several things of her; I can make lace on a pillow, and I have dealt these many years in lace, I thought it was a fine lace but not a serviceable one, several ladies looked at it, and did not like it.

Did not you know at the time you bought it, that it was worth a great deal more than that price? - I absolutely did not, and I have dealt a great deal in lace. When the prisoner brought it it was put up in half yards, I put it on a large card, which is half a yard long and a quarter broad, which I keep on purpose that the thieves should not rob me.

THOMAS WILKINSON < no role > sworn.

I sold the piece of lace to Mr. Pope and Brown, that very piece of lace, for eight shillings a yard; I believe it to be the same, it was lace of the same pattern and quality.

Whose manufacture is it? - I cannot say, I bought it in the trade.

Is not it very common when anew pattern is made to make a number of pieces of the same pattern? - A number of pieces cannot be made in a short time of that pattern.

Court to Jury. Gentlemen: It seems that you can hardly have sufficient certainty, that this is the same lace, without which, there is nothing at all to affect the prisoner; if I thought there was a sufficient ground to put the prisoner on her defence, I would then hear what she has to say.

Jury. My Lord, we are by no means satisfied as to the identity.

Court. I did not think you would, it is too slight evidence, even to put the prisoner upon her defence, in my opinion.

NOT GUILTY .

Tried by the first London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.