102. WILLIAM JONES proceedingsdefend This name instance is in set 1357. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . was indicted for feloniously receiving on the 21st of October last, fourteen locks made of steel and brass, value 4 l. and seventeen iron keys, value 17 s. the property of James Oldham proceedingsvictim , whereof William Lennard < no role > was at the last sessions convicted of stealing, knowing them to have been stolen .

(The record of the conviction of William Lennard < no role > produced and read.)

JAMES OLDHAM < no role > sworn.

I am an ironmonger in Holborn, William Lennard < no role > was my servant, Mr. Blackborough sent two of his people with some locks, desiring me to look at them, they had been found in a house that he suspected for stolen goods, I knew them immediately to be mine, they were patent locks, and had my marks on them, I went to Mr. Blackborough, he asked me some questions which led me to suspect the warehouseman, he was a weekly servant, and we agreed that when he went home in the evening, he should be followed and his lodgings searched, they followed him, and in a short time they returned with him, and a considerable deal more property than had been taken that evening, in taxing him with it he was a good deal moved, and frankly confessed that he had robbed me of several things, then he equivocated by and by, and said he intended to pay me two guineas which he had borrowed the next morning before the Justice.

Mr. Chetwood, Council for the Prisoner. I beg that Mr. Oldham may be stopped as to any thing that the other prisoner said.

Mr. Oldham. After these people were taken up, the prisoner Jones came and appeared to be very busy in getting these people off.

Are these part of the locks of which Lennard was convicted? - Yes.

- ISAACS sworn.

I am a constable, I produce these locks, they were produced on the trial of Lennard.

Mr. Chetwood to Prosecutor. You sell vast numbers of these locks? - Yes Sir, I do, but I have the numbers down of all of them.

Did you know these were lost before Lennard was apprehended? - These locks were marked and put into a particular shew-glass for gentlemen to see, they have been stolen out of that shew-glass, and have never been sold, and they were hudled together with wrong keys.

Mr. Isaacs. On the 21st of October a person came to Mr. Blackborough's office for a search warrant to go to see for some property that had been stole from him, I went where I was directed to Mr. Dunn's in Turn-mill-street, I found nothing there that I went after, but on looking in a closet, concealed, I saw a quantity of these locks, I asked Mrs. Dunn whose they were.

Mr. Garrow, another Council for the Prisoner. You must not tell us what she said.

Mr. Sylvester Council < no role > for Prosecution. He must tell his story.

Mr. Garrow. Then I will apply to the Court whether this man is to tell us what Mrs. Dunn and Mrs. Brett said.

Court, No, Certainly not.

Mr. Sylvester. When Jones was present what did they say? - Mrs. Brett declared she had the property of Jones, and Jones has repeatedly at my house, offered Redgrave and me five guineas a piece not to say any thing about it, and that we might do what we would with the locks.

Where does Jones live? - In Fleet-lane .

What kind of a shop does he keep there? - An old iron shop .

You knew him before? - Yes.

Mr. Garrow. You had no information on the subject of these locks? - No.

Your information was against Mrs. Dunn or her house? - Yes.

In which house Jones did not live? - No.

In which house he had no shop? - Not that I know of.

And in which house Jones did not carry on any business? - That I do not know, he might.

You and I have very different accounts of this offer? - Very likely.

Where did this happen? - At my house, he was a prisoner then.

In what way do you mean? - He was taken for receiving these things by Mrs. Brett's declaring she had these things from him.

Was this an offer to suppress the evidence against Jones, or an offer of commiseration to Mrs. Brett? - It was to suppress the evidence against Jones, he offered to give Redgrave and me five guineas apiece not to say any thing of the matter.

Mr. Garrow. I beg Mrs. Dunn and Mrs. Brett may go out of Court? - Court. It is too late now.

Will you swear this man was in custody at that time? - Yes, it was after he was committed.

Did not he say he would rather give five guineas? - There was no saying rather five guineas at all about the matter, he positively declared he would give five guineas apiece, if we would say nothing about him.

Upon your oath was there at that time any intention of prosecuting Jones? - Yes, he was then committed.

Mr. Oldham. I had then taken a warrant out.

Mr. Garrow to Isaacs. When was it? - The 22d of October, I believe it was three days after.

Mr. Sylvester. The offer was after he was in custody? - Yes.

Mr. Garrow. Do not you know that Jones himself went to Mr. Blackborough's, and was there discharged? - That was on the night of the 21st.

He went voluntarily to the Justice's? - I do not know that.

You did not take him there? - No.

Nor any body else to your knowledge? - No.

Do not you know that he went voluntarily? - I do not know.

What do you believe? - I cannot tell.

When did you apprehend him; on the 22d, 23d, or 24th? - I cannot rightly tell.

Come think a little, we must have it; did he come to your house, or did he nor, Sir? - I believe he came to the office, but he was taken at home at his own house.

That is the question that I asked you just now, and you could not recollect it.

Mr. Sylvester. What was that about handkerchiefs?

Mr. Garrow. Will your Lordship hear that.

Court. We have nothing to do with that.

Court to Isaacs. When Mrs. Brett and Jones < no role > the prisoner were before the Justice confronted, and Mrs. Dunn and Mrs. Brett charged them with having given them the locks, and that they received them from him, did he disown it? - He did.

JONATHAN REDGRAVE < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Silvester.

You are one of the officers of justice? - Yes.

What do you know of these locks? - Mrs. Dunn very frankly told us she had them of Mrs. Brett; I went to Mrs. Brett, she was at home, and she was taken up.

Mr. Silvester. When Jones was before the magistrate, who did she say she had them from? - From Jones; Jones came the same night, and denied she had them of him, he came the next morning to Mr. Isaacs, he said he would make an acknowledgment provided we would stifle the matter; he said all these things should be delivered up provided the matter was settled, and no prosecution had.

Did he make any offer to you? - I cannot say that he mentioned any particular sum of money.

Cross-examined by Mr. Chetwood.

Jones was not at that time in custody. - I cannot say.

Mrs. Brett was in custody. - Yes, Mrs. Dunn was discharged.

Jones came to that house, I suppose, as a friend to Mrs. Brett? - I should suppose so.

Then he wished to serve the woman who was in custody, he himself being at large. - I cannot say whether he wished to serve her or himself; he was at large, he came to the magistrate's and denied knowing any thing of the things.

ELIZABETH DUNN < no role > sworn.

I live in Turnmill-street.

Where does Mr. Brett live? - In Turnmill-street.

Where had you them brass locks and keys that were found in your house by the officer? - I had them from Mrs. Brett about three hours before they were found.

Do you know from your own knowledge who she had them from? - No.

How came they to be brought to your house? - Mrs. Brett told me she was going in the country, and asked me to be her leave them there.

Mr. Garrow. Pray Mrs. Dunn what may you be? - What am I?

Aye, what are you? - My husband is a bricklayer, I keep an iron shop.

The same way of business as the prisoner? - I keep a bit of an iron shop.

Your's is only a bit of one; who is Mrs. Brett? - Who is she, Sir, she is a neighbour.

Does she carry on any business? - Yes.

A bit of an iron shop too, perhaps; well, the officers came to your house about some other business. They found nothing but these things that belonged to she.

What were they brought to your house for? - Till she came out of the country.

Was you to do nothing with them in the mean time? - Nothing Sir, she thought her house was not safe enough, for the lock she had on her door was not a good one, and any body could get in, and she was afraid of being robbed.

Did she bring all all her property? - That, and a great deal more.

Did those officers take the rest of her things? - Yes, they took them all.

This was not old iron that wanted such safe custody, may be there was a little plate? - No, no plate.

A little linen? - I suppose that gentleman knows what there was.

We would rather have it from you, what there was that belonged to Mrs. Brett? - I cannot tell you what they were, I did not examine, and they had nothing belonging to me.

These people took you away I believe? - I was obliged to go to say how I came by them.

I suppose you mean just what I said, that they took you away? - No, they did not.

Had not they a warrant against you? - That I do not know.

What do you believe about it? - I do not believe any thing about it, I cannot believe, because I do not think any thing about it; I went to Justice Blackborough's.

Yes had been there before perhaps? - No, never in my life.

You did not suppose you was going to pay a visit of compliments to the justice? No Sir, I was not qualified for that.

Did you go there as the receiver of these goods I knowing them to be stolen? - No. Sir, that I did not.

You, said you received them from Mrs. Brett and she went there in the of the thief? - What character she went in I do not know, I had them from she and that is all I have to say.

She was taken in consequence of a warrant? - I do not know, when the officers came to me I told them they were very welcome to search.

Mr. Silvester, Why Mrs. Brett was a neighbour of yours, and lived within a few doors? - Yes, I did not think any harm.

Mr. Garrow. Mrs. Brett was not gone out of town? - She was to go that same evening.

But you found her when you wanted her? - Yes.

FRANCES BRETT sworn.

I live in Turnmill-street, within a few doors of Mrs. Dunn, I keep an iron shop, I have known Jones < no role > these two or three years, these brass locks which were left at Mrs. Dunns, I received of Mr. Jones, he gave them to me.

How long before? - Five or six days before, I never opened them, but one of the papers was broke.

Did any thing particular pass when he left these looks? - No further then he brought them in, and said them down on the corner of the counter.

Did he say any thing to you about them afterwards? - Not that I recollect, I saw him at Justice Blackborough's be then said the locks were non e of his, and he did not give them to me, he never any thing to me he sent word for me to say I bought them of somebody else, but I never said any other than that I had them of him.

Upon your oath, had you the locks of him? - I had.

And he desired you to take care of them? - Yes.

Mr. Chetwood. When was it that these people came to search your house? - They did not search my house, they came to me the same day they searched him Dunn's house, that was the 21st.

How long was it before they were found, that you carried them to Mrs. Dunn's? - Mrs. Dunn's had them of me at my house in few hours before.

You did not carry them then to Mrs. Dunn's, and tell her you was going into the country? - Mrs. Dunn carried them home herself.

Nor you did not carry any bundles of linen to Mrs. Dunn's? - Yes, several times, but I had carried none that day.

Did you give her nothing else that day? - Nothing but a bit of cotton for a gown, that way at my own house; I had had the looks five or six days before, I am sure of that; I never had any conversation with Jones afterwards, but before the Justice; he laid them down on the corner of our counter, and said, take care of them.

In that five or six days you heard nothing more from Jones? - Not that I recollect.

I believe you have, before now, taken care of Jones's shop? - The week before I did.

You have managed his shop when he has been out of town? - I bought nothing, nor sold nothing for him, only looked after it.

You say upon the 21st, when they came to examine your house, you had been in possession of the locks five or six days? - I cannot say how many days.

Was you at Mr. Blackborough's when Lennard? was - I was.

Was not it asked by Mr. Blackborough's to Lennard, if he could find out the man? - Lennard said he did not know Jones when the question was put to Leonard.

How far was Jones from him at the time? - Close by him on the other side.

Did he look about for him? - He pretended to look about and did not see him.

You made no information, nor said any thing of it, till you yourself was apprehended and in custody? - No.

Mr. Silvester. Then you knew Jones very well before this? - I have known him these many years.

Where was the linen from, that you have been asked after? - I had it of Mr. Jones.

You had frequently things of Mr. Jones. - Yes, I have had linen and muslins.

Court to Mrs. Brett. What reason did you give Mrs. Dunn for leaving these things with her? - I left them with her to take care of, I have nothing in my own house, and if I had lost them, may be Mr. Jones would have valued them more than I could have paid for.

Jury. Was any person present when the prisoner at the bar delivered you the locks which you understand to be the things mentioned in the indictment? - There was nobody present.

Where did he deliver them? In my shop.

You never saw the packet opened? - No.

Prisoner. I leave my defence to my Councel.

The witnesses for the prisoner examined apart.

AMOS ADAMS < no role > This name instance is in a workspace. sworn.

Examined by Mr. Garrow.

I am apprentice to the prisoner's father, I am employed in the shop of the prisoner, I know Mrs. Brett.

Had she and your master sometimes dealings? - I believe she had, but not to my knowledge.

Do you recollect at any time any thing passing between Mrs. Brett and the prisoner, with respect to any locks? - No, on the 29th of September Mrs. Brett came and asked if my master was come home, he had been in the country; upon being informed that he was not, she addressed herself to Mr. Woodham; who was in the shop, and asked him if he knew any that wanted a good lock, and he told her no: My master was at Cambridge, Mr. Brett was left to mind the shop; there was no business, if there had she would have seen what had been bought, she was in the shop during the time my master was in the country; she went away every night, she came re from morning to evening, he was gone eight days before that, he went on the Monday and cause home on Monday.

Who is Woodward? - He lives there, he to lay down at my master's shop during the time of my master's absence: Mrs. Brett asked him if he had any acquaintance that wanted a good lock or two, and she shewed him some, and I believe sold him two, but I will not be sure whether she sold him any or not; he was to sell them for her, I did not hear her mention the price, I was obliged to go into the shop, I had some business to do there, there was a customer; the looks seemed to be brass and iron locks for boxes.

Were they high finished locks? - They were very well finished, whether he bought any I cannot say, nor the price, I did not see any left there, there was none left there.

Did the trade stand still entirely while your master was out of town? - No, I sold what I could, and if an opportunity offered bought.

Cross Examined by Mr. Silvester.

How long have you been with him? - Five years, and found apprentice to the father, he is worker, and to serve

You understand the business pretty well I take it at this time? - The brokery business.

What day did he go out of town? - It was Monday when he went out and the 29th of September, which was the Monday after, he returned at ten o'clock; these locks were iron and brass locks.

Common locks? - I do not think they were common, they looked to be very bright, the inside was steel and the outside brass.

Mrs. Brett and your master had great dealings together? - If there was it was unknown to me.

You only buy old iron? - It is an old iron and broker's shop.

Your master deals in muslin? - I believe he does, he buys any thing when he can.

What did he go out of town for? - He went with a neighbour to an acquaintance that was in the country, he was going to Sturbridge Fair with the acquaintance.

Did he leave word where he was to be found, if Mr. Catchpole, or any body in the city called on him? - Yes, he was at home till he was up.

Then Mrs. Brett did not manage his shop when he was at home? - No.

Nor his friend Mr. Woodward? - No.

GEORGE WOODWARD < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Chetwood.

Do you know Mrs. Brett? - Yes.

How long have you known her? - About five or six months.

Where do you live? - In Fleet-lane; I am a neighbour of the prisoner's, I do not live at his house.

Did Mrs. Brett ever bring any locks of any particular make to you at any time, and offer them to sell? - On the 29th of September last I was at Mr. Jones's shop, Mrs. Brett came and enquired if Mr. Jones was at home, the boy said he was not, I was going by and she asked me if I knew any body that wanted a good lock or two, and she gave me two to sell for her; she was to allow me something for my trouble.

Have you ever returned those locks to her? - No.

Have you got them by you? - Yes.

Shew them to the Court. Was Adams by at the time? - He was.

(Two locks produced.)

Cross-Examined by Mr. Sylvester.

What are you pray? - A carpenter, undertaker, and broker.

That is your business? - Yes.

No other? - No.

No old iron shop? - Yes, I keep an old iron shop at the same time.

Where is your iron shop? - In Fleet-lane, next door to the Fellowship-porter, I have a shop of my own which I attend to, but during Mr. Jones's absence he desired me to look in now and then; I have no further concerns: I attend it now, but not to transact any business, he desired me to lay there in case any thing should happen, there is nobody else in the house but the boy; I never go there till night.

Do you know a man of the name of Small? - Yes, exceeding well.

Do you know a man of the name of Isaac Taylor < no role > ? - I cannot say I do.

Do you know Holmes? - I know him exceeding well, he serves me with hats.

Where was the plan laid of producing these locks? - There was no plan laid at all.

Where was it first thought of? - It was at Mr. Jones's shop she first came in.

Where have you had the consultation about it? - I never had any consultation with any person at any time, to the best of my knowledge, and I am pretty sure.

To the best of your knowledge? - I have not, I never had any consultation at all.

Now I will tell you where and when it was; it was the beginning of last week, in Newgate.

Was you there the beginning of last week, upon your oath? - I have been there numbers of times, I cannot specify that particular time.

Was not there a consultation with you and all the people in Newgate the beginning of last week, when this very plan was agreed to be set up? - It was not.

Was you in Newgate last week? - With Jones.

Who was in company? - Nobody that I know of particularly. I cannot recollect any person particular.

Who did you go with? - I did not go along with any body.

Who did you meet there? - Nobody particular.

Will you swear that Small was not there? - I will not take upon myself to swear that, I go there every day, very seldom I miss.

Will you swear that Small and Holmes were not there at the consultation? - Not to my knowledge.

Will you swear they were not? - I cannot pretend to recollect.

It is not so long ago? - I do not know there was any made then.

Where was it made then? - Nowhere at all.

Was you there with Small? - Small was there one day last week.

Did you see Holmes there last week? - I did not.

Did you see Taylor? - I do not know such a person by the name.

Mrs. Brett is there: will you, upon your oath. say you bought these locks of Mrs. Brett? - I did not buy them of her, she left them with me, these were the two; I never saw any thing of the kind before.

Did you not know Jones was taken up in October? - I know he was taken up on suspicion of it.

You do not remember the month, perhaps you may remember the sessions better? - It was before last sessions.

Mrs. Brett. I never offered a lock to that man in my life: upon my oath, I never saw those two locks till I see them now.

JAMES WATKINS < no role > sworn.

I am a paper stainer; I have known Jones five or six years, and my wife has known him ever since he was born; I never knew any thing amiss of him for my own part.

You believe him to be an honest man? - I know nothing to the contrary.

Mr. Sylvester. Where do you live? - I keep a publick house in Fleet-lane.

Did you never hear any harm of him? - With respect to his way of dealing is no, is no business of mine.

Did you hear of his being in trouble? - I have.

For what? - I do not know; some time ago there was something happened: I did not live at this end of the town, I came here by accident.

Do not you know friend was tried here?

Mr. Garrow. And do not you know too that he was acquitted?

Court. It is a pretty bold thing to come and give a man a good character whom you know to have been tried here.

FOR THE PROSECUTION.

RICHARD SMALL < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Sylvester.

Do you know Woodward? - Yes, very well.

Where does he live? - In Fleet-lane, he is an undertaker by trade, and keeps an iron shop besides.

Who was in company with you last week along with Jones? - Mr. Woodward and I went in together to see Mr. Jones.

What was the conversation? - In regard that he would satisfy me as far as lay in his power, that Woodward himself had bought some locks, or a lock, he did not say where he bought them.

What was he to do with these locks that he had bought; do recollect yourself; you have told Catchpole? - I never told Catchpole: he was to bring them here to shew that he bought some locks; he never told me who he bought them of.

Cross-Examined by Mr. Garrow.

Where was this conversation? - In Woodward's own little room in his house, and once in Newgate.

So then this terrible conspiracy and consultation turns out to be no more than this, that Woodward was telling Jones what he could say with truth upon the trial: he did not say a syllable about the purpose of producing them here? - No.

What are you? - A plane maker, my wife keeps an iron shop.

Prisoner. Mrs. Brett has been in Newgate a number of times since I have been there, and said, she deserved to be there instead of me.

Mr. Sylvester. These locks were not lost till October, and those they produce were bought as they say on the 29th of September.

GUILTY .

Transported for fourteen years .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron HOTHAM < no role > .