953. GEORGE OWEN proceedingsdefend and FRANCIS CHANT proceedingsdefend were indicted, for that on the 7th of September last, William Yardley < no role > did send to, and deliver to the wardens and commonalty of the mystery of Goldsmiths, in the city of London, certain goods made of silver, viz. twenty-seven pair of shoe-buckle rims, to be assayed, tried and marked, according to the statute; and, that they well knowing the premises, afterwards, on the 7th of September, feloniously did falsly make, forge and counterfeit, and cause, and procure to be falsly made, forged and counterfeited, and did willingly act, and assist in the false making, forging and counterfeiting, a certain warrant and order for delivery of the said goods , with the name W. Yardley thereto subscribed, which said order was as follows, to wit.

"Please to let the bearer have the work (meaning thereby the said goods) W. Yardley, Tuesday 8." with intention to defraud the said William Yardley < no role > .

A second Count for uttering the said forged order, knowing the same to be forged, with the like intention.

A third Count for uttering the same, with intention to defraud the wardens and commonalty of the mystery of Goldsmiths proceedingsvictim against the statute.

Mr. Garrow opened the Prosecution.

Mr. Chetwood, Mr. Morgan and Mr. Sheppard, Council for the Prisoners.

THOMAS KING < no role > sworn.

I am one of the weighers of the Goldsmiths company, on Tuesday the 7th of September were sent to be assayed for Mr. Yardley, twenty-seven pair of silver buckles to Goldsmiths-hall, to the assay-office, I mean only the rims, we in general call them buckles; when they were assayed a note came purporting to be the note of Mr. Yardley, for the delivery of them, that was on the evening of the same day, the course of business is to deliver them by five o'clock; in consequence of this order I delivered the buckles.

Do you recollect to whom you delivered the buckles? - The prisoner, Owen, I firmly believe to be the person.

Was the prisoner alone? - There might be five, ten, or twenty boys about the office coming for things about the same time.

How soon after did you see the prisoner Owen? - I did not see him till I saw him at the public office, which was in the course of one or two days.

Did you then recollect him? - Perfectly.

And you have now no doubt of his person? - I have not.

Have you had that note in your possession ever since? - Ever since.

Deliver it in.

Court. Do you mean to speak to belief only? - To belief only, I do not positively swear to him, but I firmly believe him to be the person.

(The Note read.)

"Please to let the bearer have the work,

"W. Yardley, Tuesday 8."

Court. What day of the month was it? - The seventh.

This purports to be the eighth? - Yes.

Count. Hand up the indictment, the indictment is a very exact copy of the figure, for it may be read either eight, or three.

Mr. Morgan. Your Lordship will permit me to ask a question or two. I will beg the favour of you to state the custom of your office more particularly? - In what point do you mean?

The rule of your office, I believe, is to send in your goods at nine in the morning for the purpose of being assayed? - All goods to be assayed that day are to be sent by nine.

When are they to be fetched away? - By five o'clock.

That is not an answer sufficiently particular, they have not the whole course of the day to fetch them away in? - No, there is a time during the process of the marking, and assaying, which is sometimes three, half after three, four, or five, according to the business of the day.

If I understand you right, the silversmith has, at the utmost, but one hour in the afternoon to send for his goods? - We have them sometimes one, two, three, four, or five days at the office and not fetched away.

Do you permit the tradesmen to send for their goods any time of the day; when they send them in the morning do you chuse to give them longer than an hour to fetch them away? - Our orders are to shut up the office at five.

Suppose the silversmith sends this morning by nine, goods to assay, is it customary for the silversmith who wants his goods the same day, to send for them by four, suppose they were to send at three? - If any of the trade want the indulgence to have their business by three, our assay-master endeavours to indulge them, the usual course is to deliver between four and five.

Have you not many tradesmen sending every day goods to be assayed, and sending for those goods? - Yes, many.

You said there might be five, ten, or twenty boys and servants that very day coming for goods? - I believe there were, at the time I delivered the work to the prisoner there might be ten, twelve, or fourteen boys or men at the window.

Your evidence was five, ten, or twenty? - I believe I am within the number now.

You will do me the favour to recollect that you have told my Lord in the most express terms, or otherwise I should not have examined so very particularly, that as to the prisoner, you would only speak to your belief, therefore I recommended to you not to speak of the delivery of the goods to the prisoner at the bar? - There might be twenty, I do not think there was so many, there might.

You are a weigher? - Yes.

Does the assay-master attend? - Not in our office, the goods are delivered from our office.

You have a great many goods in that office of course? - Yes.

You speak to small articles? - Some small, some large.

Small articles, many that might be pilfered? - They cannot be taken away from the office.

But they are open to public inspection, to all the servants that come in, you have a vast quantity of small goods that are liable to be pilfered. - Our work is all weighed, and a small ticket of each workman's name upon each bag or box, and placed in different parts for our going to them, when the workman comes for his work ready to be delivered, the window of the office is thrown open, and the boys, or men, or women that come for the work, call out Jones's work, Yardley's work, King's work, or whatever they may come for.

When they come for their work, suppose it to be Mr. Yardley's; I come for Mr. Yardley's work, they deliver a note purporting to be from Mr. Yardley, looking as that did, and believing it to be from the workman? - We deliver the goods.

Suppose a little girl of eight years old was to bring you one of these notes, and call out for the work, you would deliver it her, would not you? - If I thought it was a note from her master I certainly should, for we deliver it to many, both old and young.

Then your attention is paid to the note that is brought, you look at the note, and your attention is directed to the note? - To the note intirely, without the person, we pay no respect to the person.

It is already in evidence that this was on the 7th of September? - Yes, Sir, Tuesday.

Is the room where the servants come a light room, a dark room, or middling? - If anything rather dark.

Court. If I understand your mode of delivery right, the persons who come for them do not come into the room where they are? - No, Sir, they are handed out; sometimes they do, if the gentleman comes himself for his work, we do not let him stand among the boys.

Court. They are not placed in the reach of the person who comes for them - No.

EDWARD FELINE < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Silvester. I understand you are one of the weighers of the Goldsmith's company? - Yes.

Look upon these young men, do you know either of them? - Yes, perfectly well.

Which of them? - I know them both by seeing them before, but the prisoner Owen was the person, I believe, that the work was delivered to.

Have you known his person before? - No, I do not know as I ever saw him before, I was present at the time of delivery, it was delivered in the usual way, he asked for Mr. Yardley's work, and it was delivered to him.

Mr. Sheppard. I take it for granted that the business is done rather in a hurry, is not it? - Why, Sir, my part of the business was done, I was at leisure, and looked very attentively at the person who came for the work.

Tell us how you came to look at tentively at this particular person, there were many boys? - I stood at the window, at the time the window was open, Mr. King was not immediately ready to deliver it, and hearing the prisoner ask for Mr. Yardley's work, I looked at him.

Court. Do you mean so speak positively to the prisoner Owen, or only to strong belief? - I wish to be understood not speaking positively, but only to strong belief.

NOAH YARDLEY < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Garrow. How old are you? - I am fourteen the fifth of next February.

Do you know the nature of an oath? - Yes.

You know it is your duty to tell the whole truth, now you are here? - Yes.

What will happen to you if you do not tell the truth? - I shall go to hell! I am errand boy to Mr. Yardley, I remember going to the assay-office on the 7th of September, I carried twenty-seven pair of buckle-rims, silver, to Goldsmith's-hall, and I delivered them to Mr. King.

Had you been used to carry work before? - Yes.

Did you deliver it in the usual way? - Yes.

Do you remember either of these two young men? - Yes.

Which of them have you seen? - Chant, the young man in brown.

Where did you see him before? - I have seen him at my uncle's before.

Do you remember seeing him on that day that you went to the Assay-office? - Yes.

Where did you see him? - Just by the hall, on the morning that I carried the buckles, he said to me, what are you going to the hall, I told him yes, he said nothing more then; then I went and delivered the work, and coming back he says, what do they write when they send to Goldsmiths-hall for the work; do not they write please to deliver the work to the bearer.

Court. Are you sure that was what he said? - Yes, I told him I believed so.

Jury. You have been at the office before? - Yes.

Can you read writing? - Yes.

Then you recollected the words, did not you? - No, I did not recollect particularly.

Had you any more conversation with him at that time? - No, Sir, not about that affair, then we parted, and he went through Smithfield, it was the last day of Bartholomew fair; I went to Goldsmiths-hall in the afternoon for the work, I did not get the work, in consequence of some information from me the prisoner was apprehended.

Are you sure the prisoner was the person that talked to you? - I am very sure of the prisoner Chant.

Mr. Chetwood. You know Chant very well? - Yes.

Why he is a relation of your's? - I believe he is.

He used frequently to talk with you when he met you? - Yes, Sir, before.

That day he happened to see you, and asked you if you were going to the hall? - Yes.

Why he never met you without speaking to you about something or other? - Very seldom.

What did he ask you? - Says he, do not they write, please to deliver the work to the bearer, I told him I believed so.

Mr. Sheppard. Was you with Mr. Yardley when the prisoners were apprehended? - No, Sir.

WILLIAM YARDLEY < no role > sworn.

Look at that order.

Court. What do you call Mr. Yardley to prove? - To look at that order; and see whether it is his order.

Mr. Garrow. We have a release.

A release of what, who has he a claim on? - On the Company, for his goods.

Is that your hand writing? - No.

You was present I believe, and apprehended these two young men? - Yes.

Were they together? - They were going along, I was not positive that they were together; they were walking over Clerkenwell-green, I stopped Chant and the other walked on, I was of opinion that the other was belonging to him, and I asked Mr. Rushforth, who was in company with me to stop him.

Court. How near was the other prisoner to him? - He might be a yard or two behind him.

Did you see them walking absolutely together? - I think they were together, one was a little way before the other, I had a little suspicion, the other looked like a thief by his dress; I desired Mr. Rushforth to stop the other young man, he brought him up, I then asked Chant if he knew any thing of my buckles, we went to Bow-street, and Mr. Rushforth told me he believed the buckles were in Owen's pocket, Chant said, he knew nothing of them, he did not know what I meant.

Mr. Silvester. How came you to stop Chant? - The boy came back and told me, that the work was delivered by a false receipt, I went down with him to the hall, and found the description of the boy, and I stopped Chant.

Was Chant examined? - Yes.

Was any thing found upon him? - No.

Was Owen examined? - Yes, twenty-four pair of silver rims were found upon him, they were my property, the same I sent to the office in the morning.

Did you examine to see whether they had passed or not passed at the office? - Yes, they were marked.

You sent them for that purpose in the morning? - Yes.

When you found them, they had the mark upon them? - Yes.

Are you sure these buckles are your property? - Yes.

Mr. Morgan. Do you know Owen? - I never saw him before I took him.

Have you had an opportunity since of being informed what business he is of? - I believe he is a hatter and hosier.

Chant is a relation of your's? - My brother married his sister.

What business is he? - A buckle maker,

Was he bred to the business? - Yes.

Is he out of his time? - I believe he never was apprentice, they worked in the country by the week.

Did he work for you before this affair? - He did not work for me.

Who did he work for in town? - For Mr. Turner the buckle maker, he had lived at my brother's who lives in Cold-bathfields; Turner lives in Charles-street, Hatton-garden; Chant has been in London, about twelve months.

Was he intimate in your family? - Not very intimate with me, he has been at my house of an errand or so.

I find he knew your boy Yardley? - Yes, they used to be together when the boy went down to his uncle's.

Had he been used to come to the Goldsmiths office do you know, for your brother or for Mr. Turner? - I cannot say.

The cause of your suspicion, was that he had been asking the boy the form of the order to get the buckles? - Yes.

Supposing Owen had this order, by virtue of which the goods were delivered, do you, of your own knowledge, know who gave Owen < no role > that order? - No, I do not, I know the patterns of the buckles, and the marks.

It is not morally impossible that another workman may have the same pattern? - It is impossible.

Do you make the pattern yourself? - Yes.

Was it of your own invention? - Some of them, it is impossible that any man should have them so exact.

Was it impossible that another workman should have the same pattern? - They may have the same pattern made from that.

Do you send your work to the hall compleatly finished? - In the rough.

Is there not a possibility, or is it not too common, for one manufacturer to take the mark of another? - I think it possible.

I ask if it is not done? - Not that I know off.

Then I ask you of your own knowledge, whether it is not done by the cutlers and silversmiths? - I do not know of my own knowledge, it is possible to be done, that you know as well as I.

The man that made that punch could make another? - Yes.

Exactly? - Yes.

Mr. Silvester. Have you a doubt in your mind that these are the buckles? - I have no doubt at all.

Court. Who did you send for them that evening? - This boy.

Court to Boy. What time did you go for the goods? - About twenty-five minutes past four when I went out, I was there a little before five, I was told the goods were delivered.

Did you carry any note for them? - Yes, and brought it back.

Yardley. I sent him with a note, and he brought it back.

Mr. Morgan. Have you that note here? - I have not, I was so careful of it, I locked it up, it is at home.

- RUSHFORTH sworn.

I am Assay master to the Goldsmiths Company, I was in company with Mr. Yardley, when the prisoners were apprehended.

Did any thing pass between you and Chant about Owen? - We put him into a coach, and immediately took him to Bow-street; previous to his going into the coach, I observed his pockets, I put my hand and found something very hard, as we were going along, Mr. Yardley said, the buckles are here, I said, I did imagine so, there were twenty-four pair of buckles found in his pocket, they were in a rough state, the office mark appeared to be recently made.

Mr. Chetwood. Nothing was found upon Chant? - Nothing at all.

The prisoners were not together? - I was behind Mr. Yardley, at the time that Mr. Yardley stopped Chant, I stopped Owen.

MOSES MORANT < no role > sworn.

I searched Owen, I found in his coat pocket these twenty-four pair of buckles.

(Produced and deposed to.)

Mr. Sheppard to Prosecutor. Will you swear that you never saw any buckles exactly of this pattern, made by the manufacturers in any of the shops in London, take any of them? - Some of them.

I believe a good many of them? - I can swear to these, for I never saw them any where, I do not believe they were seen.

Jury to Prosecutor. Have all these buckles your mark upon them? - Yes, I believe they have W. Y.

Jury. I should be glad to look at all the buckles? - They are marked some on the bottoms and some on the bridges.

Mr. Silvester. Have you weighed them? - I have not weighed them, but I am sure they will answer to the weight; there are three pair that another witness has in Court, these three pair make up the whole.

WILLIAM WILLIAMS < no role > sworn.

I have three pair of buckle rims, I had them from a woman that keeps the Red Cow, in Foster-lane.

Is she here? - I do not know.

Do you know her name? - No.

Court. That evidence may be laid quite out of the case.

Mr. Morgan to Yardley. Now hand me the pattern that you state particularly to be your pattern? - This is made for a particular person.

Now you will swear that no other silversmith in London had a buckle of either of those patterns, on the day you sent those to the office? - Yes, I had sold some before.

Then you had before those were sent to the office, sold some of the identical pattern? - Yes.

Then could not that pattern be taken off by another silver-smith, and the buckles taken from them? - No, Sir, when they are quite different.

Attend to your evidence a little; when you have sold me a pair of buckles compleatly finished, cannot I go to another silver-smith's, and get a pair made for me? - You cannot get them in the rough like them.

Sir, answer me? - He may make them nearly like them, but not so, but I can tell the difference.

What after they are compleatly finished, can you tell the difference? - Yes.

Let a silver-smith take a pair of rims, that are sold without any pattern, and cut me a pair exactly like those in my shoes now? - Not so but that the maker of those could tell the difference.

Then they would not be exactly alike? - No, they could not make them exactly like them, it is impossible for one man, to make two buckles alike.

Then you never sold a pair of buckles in your life; you sent twenty-seven pair of buckles to the office? - Yes.

You got twenty-four pair back, you never weighed them? - I know they were weight.

Jury. In some of the buckles the marks are very plain, in others the punch is double, do you know them? - When I entered the punch at the office, it was rather a blind mark, it was not made perfect.

Can you swear to the impression? - I can swear to the punch, I have not the punch here; there is nothing very particular in it.

Can you swear to them that are not clear? - I can swear to them all, the buckles, and the punch, and the patterns, and every thing, they were all struck with one punch.

Court to Rushforth. The immpression appears more or less according as it is struck off? - Yes, sometimes they strike the mark upon a part which we call barred, and that with a ruff file, the smoother the surface upon which the mark is struck the more distinct.

The prisoner Chant called three witnesses who gave him a very good character.

The prisoner Owen called eight witnesses who gave him a very good character.

At the request of the Jury, Phillis Saunders < no role > was examined, relative to the three pair of buckles Williams bad from her; and she said, she had them from a person that Mr. Forrester sent them by to her house.

Jury to Yardley. Can the prisoner Chant write? - He cannot.

Can the prisoner Owen? - He can.

Court to Noah Yardley < no role > . When Chant asked you the form of the order, did he ask you what goods you were going to take to the hall? - No, Sir, he did not.

The Jury withdrew for some time, and returned and asked the following question of Owen.

How do you account for having the buckles about you.

Court. He had an opportunity of making his defence, but I will ask him, though it seems to be calling upon him to invent a story.

Jury. It is only one of the Jury that has any doubt at all.

Court to Owen. Have you any wish to say any thing as to these buckles being found upon you.

Owen. Now, Sir, respecting these buckles, I received them from one Forrester, in Charter-house-lane, he said, Owen, if you have a mind to carry these buckles to the Angel, at Clerkenwell, and wait till I come, I shall be there presently; I was going to another place, he only desired me to leave them at this place, I did not know the consequence, nor how they were obtained, this person I understand has absconded.

Mr. Garrow. I am afraid it is my duty to ask what account was given when he was first apprehended.

Court. I will push the enquiry no further, I will leave it to the good sense of the Gentlemen of the Jury, whether they think any credit is due to this story.

GEORGE OWEN < no role > , GUILTY , Death .

On the second and third Counts.

FRANCIS CHANT < no role > , NOT GUILTY .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.