656. JOSEPH DUNBAR proceedingsdefend This name instance is in set 1403. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . was indicted for that he, on the 4th day of December last, falsly and feloniously did forge, make and counterfeit, and cause and procure to be falsly made, forged and counterfeited, and willingly act and assist in the false making, forging and counterfeiting a certain note purporting to be a bank note, with the name John Boult < no role > thereto subscribed, dated the 4th of December, 1783, signed John Boult < no role > for the Governor and Company of the Bank of England, for the payment of the sum of 10 l. which said note so falsly made, forged and counterfeited , is as follows, to wit,

"1783

"No. 102, I promise to pay Mr. James

"Moore, or bearer, on demand, the sum

"of sixty pounds. London, 4th December,

"1783, for the Governor and Company

"of the Bank of England, John

"Boult," with intention to defraud - Bryan proceedingsvictim .

A Second Count for forging a note in form of a bank note, with the like intention.

A third Count the same as the first, with intention to defraud the Governor and Company of the Bank of England proceedingsvictim .

A fourth Count the same as the second, with the like intention.

A fifth Count calling it a promisory note, with intention to defraud - Bryan.

A sixth Count with intention to defraud the Bank.

The witnesses on both sides ordered to withdraw, except the Gentlemen belonging to the Bank.

Mr. Fielding opened the indictment; and Mr. Sylvester opened the Case.

Mr. Fielding. My Lord, we now propose to call in Henry Davis < no role > , who stands in some degree connected in part of this crime, as he has surrendered and has not been taken up, I purpose to call him first: I am am aware there is a common objection to calling an evidence first, and I dare say, it lives in your Lordship's memory, that I took it once, and you sent up stairs to Mr. Baron Eyre < no role > , who said there could be no objection to calling him first, for the order of calling him did not seem to make any question, because if he was not confirmed by other evidence it would go for nothing.

Court. I do not conceive there is any rule to put it out of the power of the Court in any case; in the first place, I do not consider the witness in question to be a witness merely against whom there are imputations on his credit and character, but he is stated as an accomplice, and the objection to them stands in a sort of middle class, between an objection to the credit and to the competency; it is something more to one, and something less to the other; it does not go to excuse the Jury from hearing that witness at all; on the other hand, it does not leave the Jury at liberty in point of law, if they were inclined to do it, to admit him unaccompanied, he is therefore not competent to give evidence, unless it be attended with other circumstances: under that rule therefore it has always been considered as discretionary; different Judges hold different practices; but I am clearly convinced, that the better way is not to examine the accomplice first; for this reason; the Jury ought not to receive impressions from evidence, of which ultimately they may not be at liberty in point of law to believe; therefore, it being a question that is to decide on his competency, you are not to call a witness first who may be incompetent; and if he is unconfirmed, he is incompetent; therefore, I shall not be disposed, without stronger reasons than I have yet heard, to examine the accomplice first.

Mr. Garrow, one of the Prisoner's Council. My Lord, I am not fond of the Jury hearing what they are afterwards told to forget.

- BRYAN sworn.

Examined by Mr. Fielding.

I believe I need not trouble you with repeated questions, you will be so good to inform the Court all you know relative to this transaction. - At Bruges in Flanders, in January last, two notes, purporting to be Bank of England promissory notes, the one for 30 l. the other for 60 l. were presented to me for negociation; I discovered them to be false ones, and had three people taken into custody at Bruges, one of which, who proved to be the principal, was called John Day < no role > , him I took, and in his pocket were one hundred and nine notes, they were of different sums, from one hundred to ten pounds.

Mr. Garrow. I think it right to ask your Lordship, whether the whole this gentleman shall be permitted to say against Dunbar the prisoner, should not be relative to the note in question?

Mr. Morgan, another of the Prisoner's Council. I was going to make the objection, and Mr. Garrow takes it out of my mouth.

Court. If you were to affect the prisoner with the evidence of other notes than that mentioned in the indictment, it would be proper.

Mr. Fielding. I should be the last man in the world to blame the zeal of my young friend, particularly when he is concerned for the prisoner.

Mr. Bryan. The notes amounted together to 2975 l. all of which were, as I firmly believe, forged.

(The note shewn him.)

Was not that taken from the pocket book of Day? - It was not one of the first tendered to me, it was one of those taken from his pocket.

JOHN ACTON < no role > sworn.

This note was delivered to me by Mr. Bryan, it has been in my possession ever since.

Mr. Bryan. That note I deliverd to Mr. Acton myself.

Mr. Fielding to Mr. Bryan. Who were in company with Day? - There were two, one named Hall, the Captain of the vessel, the other was called John Priston < no role > .

Mr. Morgan. Who was it that offered the two bills to you? - One was by Hall, and the other by Day, he is called John Day < no role > there.

Mr. Morgan. Then this man that you have been talking of all along, is Day? - Yes.

JOHN WOODIN < no role > sworn.

Mr. Morgan. This man appears to be an accomplice also.

Court. It strikes me that Woodin, who is now called, is not stated to be an accomplice; there is no fact stated that makes it so; a suspicion is thrown upon him by the evidence of Mr. Bryan, he is taken under suspicious circumstances, under these circumstances let it turn as it will ultimately, we should receive his evidence with caution: but there has not turned out any fact that proves him to be an accomplice; an accomplice must be either antecedently proved, or stated to be an accomplice, or it must come out of his mouth.

Mr. Garrow. We had better abandon our objection, than argue it in the hearing of the witness.

Court. What is your name? - John Woodin < no role > .

Examined by Mr. Sylvester.

I went over to Bruges to buy lawns and muslins, I went by the name of Day, we went as smugglers, to smuggle these things into England, and I went in another name for fear of being Exchequered.

What had you to pay for the goods that were to be purchased? - I had 3070 l. in bank notes.

Were any notes taken from you at Bruges by Mr. Bryan? - Yes.

Where did you get these notes from? - I took them of William Newland < no role > This name instance is in set 1364. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . at Yar-mouth, there being nobody in company but him; there was one came down to Yar-mouth, one Davis was down there with him, but then I did not know him, nor I did not know his name, I knew his person, that is the man I mean that goes by the name of Davis, he went by the name of Pitts; Newland went by the name I think of either Harris or Matthews, or some such thing; it is customary to go by false names: I do not know they ever went in that way before. I was employed by that man, I know no other man; I was to have 250 l. and half the profits of the goods; we computed the profits of that voyage at 500 l. if it was more I was to have half the profits, it was to be made up to me 250 l. I stopped at Newmarket till he came to me, he opened his pocket book and said, here is our beauties; it was Newland that came to me.

Look at that note? - This is what Mr. Bryant had at Bruges.

Mr. Morgan. How do you know that? - Because there is M. B. on it, I cannot tell any more, I do not know a number of any of them.

Did you know any thing about these notes before? - Never.

Mr. Garrow. So your working name is Woodin, and your travelling name is Day? - It was so then.

How old are you? - About thirty-two.

Who are you, and where do you live; what have you been? - I believe it is about seven years since I left off farming, I have been a farmer at Astley in Bedfordshire, and Gaddesden in Herts, and no where else.

Since that you have been a sky farmer, I suppose? - I have been in the victualling since that, and I believe I can have a character from the officer.

What sort of victualling now was it? - I have been in the Victualling-office, I belonged to the cooperage.

How belonged to it, you are not a cooper by trade? - I will tell you as nigh as I can guess.

Do not guess about it, what have you done with yourself for the last seven years? I cannot tell.

But you will tell before you leave that place? - I gained my living very honestly, I never robbed any body in my life.

I shall repeat the question? - I have lived in the victualling about two years, about three years ago.

Now when you left Gaddesden? - I lived at Mr. Whitebread's the brewer upwards of a year.

What became of you in the other time? - I have belonged to the tide in the Excise, in what they call the gluts; I had my order from Commissioner Scott, that was only in the summer.

How did you consume your time in the winter? - Sometimes in one way, sometimes in another.

Let us hear of some of your ways? - I cannot tell you.

If you have done that which you just now said you have not done, I do not want you to tell me that, or any thing that will hang you; you said now and then you was upon a glut, what did you do with yourself at other times? - I very likely had no employment in the winter.

What did you live upon an estate somewhere? - No.

How did you support yourself? - With what I had.

Then you left the farming with some property in your hands? - What I got in the summer supported me a little in the winter.

What were your wages in the Excise? - A guinea in the week.

How did you leave your farm, was your lease expired; now I believe the landlord could not find enough to pay his rent? - Yes, there was enough.

Was there one shilling more? - Yes, there was.

Will you say there was five pounds more? - Yes, I will say there was a great deal more.

How long at times have you been a smuggler?

Mr. Silvester. That is certainly an improper question.

Mr. Garrow. He has told us already that he is a smuggler.

Court. If he was asked as to any act of smuggling, the question would be contrary to law. - I do not know.

Upon your oath, so short a time as ten years? - I do not know.

Fifteen years out of the thirty-two? - No, Sir, I have not.

The last ten? - No.

Or the last seven? - No.

Fix some time? - I cannot fix a time.

Perhaps I may help you; you was employed for the Excise in the summer, and at smuggling in the winter? - Sometimes I was.

You saw a man at Yarmouth, who called himself Pitts, and another man that called himself Matthews? - Yes.

Was you acquainted with Matthews before? - Yes, I believe about three months.

When did you come acquainted with him? - He came to buy corn of me.

Where did you live at that time? - In Charles-street, Westminster.

Why you did not tell us you was a dealer in corn then, what have you done with yourself the last three years? - Some part of the time I have been in prison.

What unfortunate accident carried you there? - Debt, as many other people do.

Debt only? - Yes.

How long have you been out? - It may be a year and a half.

How was you discharged? - The plaintiff dropped the groats.

What have you done during that year and a half? - I have been out of business, while I went into the corn chandlery way, I have been a corn chandler three months; Newland was one of my first customers.

Did you keep a house in this street? - Yes.

And lived in great credit and repute no doubt? - I do not know, I paid my way there.

With the assistance of the smuggling trade that you carried on during that time? - I did not smuggle during that period, I went to Yarmouth to go over.

And you mean that the Jury should understand you, that Newland, who saw you a pauper turned out of prison, trusted you with these bank notes of 3070 l. and that not in the presence of any one man living but yourself? - Nobody was by.

You understood these bank notes to be genuine bank notes? - Yes.

Did you give him a receipt? - No.

Did you give him a promissory note? - No.

Any other security? - There was a piece of writing I believe that he had the number of those notes that I had.

Did you sign that? - Yes.

Where did you write that upon it? - I cannot swear particularly to it.

Had this list ever been in the possession of Newland since the world began? - There was one list only in Newland's possession; there is two lists, one I had, and one Newland had.

On your oath, was the note that Newland had, signed by you? - I cannot tell.

That it is pretty singular? - I cannot say.

You knew this was a secret transaction between you and Newland, passing in a parlour, and nobody by, did you give him any acknowledgment that they were in your possession? - Only that paper.

Was that paper signed? - I cannot say that it was.

Did not it strike you as pretty singular? - I do not think it any great matter to be intrusted, he sent Thrusten along with me.

Was he apprehended at Bruges? - Yes.

Did he know you had them? - He knew I was to have them.

Do you mean to say, that you believed at the time you tendered those notes to Mr. Bryant, that they were genuine bank notes? - Yes.

You took Mr. Newland to be the most friendly and kind man in the world to be sure, to put 250 l. in your pocket, and trust you with 3070 l. of his notes? - Yes.

To what amount had he ever dealt with you for corn, for fifty pounds? - I believe it may be.

Will you swear he had ever paid you fifty pounds for corn? - No.

Twenty-five pounds? - No.

Twenty pounds? - I cannot tell.

Ten pounds? - Yes, and more, but he did not pay me, he paid some of the men that belonged to me.

Do you know of his having paid one shilling to any man for corn? - He has to me I believe about ten pounds.

Did you tell this history to any body until you yourself was in custody? - I told Mr. Bryant, but not till I was in custody.

How many of the notes did you offer in payment at the first time to Mr. Bryant? - But one, to the amount of 60 l.

You intended to lay out the whole of 3070 l. in goods, to be brought to England? - I did.

Why did not you tender more notes at first? - I was to have some goods for the remainder, and I was going the day I was taken up for the goods.

Was not the 60 l. so tendered to him, tendered with a view to see whether you could pass the others? - No, it was not, I went to the bankers to change them; I never took a bank note in my life, I wish I had never seen one.

Did you understand the assuming different names at Yarmouth to be for the purpose of concealing a felony, or merely for the purpose of concealing smuggling goods?

Court. I must stop you in that question; a question that can be answered only one way without accusing himself, is not to be put.

(The paper shewn him.)

Woodin. Whether this is the one that Newland had, or that which the other had I cannot say.

Mr. Garrow. This is not signed? - No, it is not, it is my own writing.

JOHN BOULT < no role > sworn.

Mr. Morgan objected to this gentleman as a witness.

Mr. Garrow. The objection is to calling any one to the proving the note that has been traced to another man and not to Dunbar, to be a forgery.

Court. There can be no objections to that.

Mr. Sylvester. You are one of the cashiers of the Bank? - Yes.

Is that a bank note? - No, it cannot be a bank note, it is not bank paper.

What is it then? - A forgery.

Court. You have no doubt of that? - No, none at all, it is not like the paper.

Court. I see the number of that note is number 102, without any letter, is that ever the case with a bank note? - Yes, with many thousands.

- PENN sworn.

I am one of the entering clerks belonging to the Bank; this is not my handwriting, it is in the form of a bank note, but differs widely from it in many respects, the paper being of a thinner consistence, and the words in many places being altered; likewise the in the sixty.

Mr. Morgan. What do you say to the size of the paper? - Pretty like.

In other respects it is as like a bank note as it is like a cow, I suppose? - No, Sir, there is more similarity than that.

WILLIAM BULLOCK < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Fielding.

Where do you live? - At Colnbrook; I am a paper-maker.

Look at the prisoner at the bar? - I cannot swear to him; he came down to our mill.

Is that the man that came to your mill? - I am not sure.

Have you a memory at all of the persons that came to your mill? - No, I have not.

Two people came down to the paper-mill? - Yes, they wanted to see the art of our business, we had just done work, and they wanted to try to make a sheet, and one of them made a sheet, and carried it to Mrs. Vaughan's, and there it was dried.

The two people went from the paper-mill to Mrs. Vaughan's? - Yes, she keeps the Punch-bowl, in the mill yard; I saw them go, and drank with them; no person else was in company.

Mr. Morgan. How long did they stay there? - I believe they were there pretty nigh half an hour.

How long are you in the making a sheet of paper completely, so as to render it fit for sale? - We can make it in a moment, but it must be hung up and dried, and seasoned, and glazed, and dressed, and hung up again, and told out.

That will take a week? - Yes, or a fortnight; we have a great many gentle people come to see the business; if my master is there, he will not let them give us any thing.

Court. You encourage gentlemen to make a sheet of paper every now and then? - If they do not offer we ask them.

Mr. Morgan. This is only dipping the mould into the fluid, and in a moment throwing it over the frame; suppose I was to come, must not a man have a good deal of skill and experience before he could do that business? - Yes, yes, a great many goes to try, and it looks as rough as if it was run over with a hurdle; not ten gentlemen out of a hundred ever make a good sheet of paper.

Court. Is there a difference in making different paper of different qualities? - Yes.

What sort would this have been if it was well made? - What we call demy.

Mr. Morgan. What paper is that? - I believe it is what is made the same size as our bank bills; I cannot tell you without the sheet was whole, this has been cut off a larger piece, demy is stouter than this.

ELIZABETH VAUGHAN < no role > sworn.

I keep a public house at a place called Pyle, near the paper-mill.

Mr. Fielding. Old fellow, what time did these two people come to the paper-mill? - It was almost a twelvemonth ago.

Mr. Fielding to Mrs. Vaughan. Do you remember the prisoner? (shews him) - I have no knowledge of either of those gentlemen.

Have you seen either of the men to day who came to your house at that time? - I think to the best of my knowledge I have seen one, but I have not a memory of the other, I have no recollection of the other.

Mr. Garrow. You have looked round the Court, and you say you cannot discover now either of the persons that were at your alehouse? - I cannot.

Where was it that you saw this man that told you he had been some time ago at your public house? - I think I saw him at the Rose Tavern, he told me he came in a one horse chaise, and with another man whom he described.

What description did he give of him? - A shortish lusty man.

Do you recollect when that man you saw at the Rose was at your house? - I cannot be particular to that, but it must be within a twelvemonth.

ROBERT RATCLIFFE < no role > sworn.

I am a bird-cage maker and wire-worker.

Where do you live? - At Whitechapel; I was applied to by one Henry Davis < no role > , to make a mould and frame, nobody was in company with him, nobody came with him at all particular; he came and desired me to come to his house, and in his dining room there was a gentleman gave me orders for that frame.

Should you know him if you saw him again? - I cannot say that I should, I do not know, it was by candle-light, and with the taking notice of the dimensions, I did not take any notice of him at all.

What was the order you received? - A bit of brass wire work, of about eight inches long, and between that there was a great A and two figures in the middle, made very fine, I delivered it to Mr. Davis when I had made it, he paid me for it; he seemed to be a shortish, lustyish gentleman, in a curled wig, done up all in powder.

THOMAS HAYCOCK < no role > sworn.

Examined by Mr. Fielding.

I live at the White Raven, Mile-end.

Did you ever see the prisoner before? - Yes.

Tell me where and when? - I can tell you where, but when I cannot say, I saw him at the White Raven, Davis and the prisoner have been in company several times; I know the garden of Davis, it was in the White Raven gardens.

Was there any building in it? - No, no building, only a summer house which Davis kept as a summer house; it was between Michaelmas and Christmas they have frequently come.

ELIZABETH BILBY < no role > sworn.

I keep the White Raven; I know the prisoner and Davis, I have seen them together at our house, Davis has a little house near that, and a garden, I have seen them there together twice, I saw nobody in the house besides themselves, I have seen them several times at the White Raven, I served them as I would another customer, I knew nothing of their purpose.

THOMAS GROVES < no role > sworn.

Do you know Dunbar? - Yes.

Do you know Davis? - No; I have seen the prisoner and Gibbert together, but what they did I do not know.

Mr. Sylvester. My Lord, now we call Henry Davis < no role > .

Court. State first what circumstance you have proved against the prisoner.

Mr. Sylvester. We have proved that two men came together to the paper-maker's.

Court. Of which the prisoner is not proved to be one; if you had proved that frame to have been bespoke by the prisoner, and by clear and unequivocal proof that he was one of the persons who came to the mill, I should then have considered whether I should have let you into the evidence of Davis, but I doubt whether I should then.

Mr. Sylvester. It is my duty to submit it to the Court, and to take the opinion of the Court upon it; the gentlemen of the Bank have no wish themselves in the business, but for the attainment of justice.

Court. I am perfectly clear that the gentlemen of the Bank have no wish but for public justice; it has been proved clearly, that a forgery to a large amount has been committed by somebody, and detected; it became then not only proper, but the duty of the gentlemen who manage the affairs of the Bank to bring these circumstances before a Court of Justice; and it is not their faults if Davis has either made a false discovery, if he has either deceived them in leading them to suppose that he would make a discovery, which he either could not, or did not make; nor if the circumstances have not come out from the recollection of the witnesses as was expected. The prosecution was very proper to be brought here, and it has been conducted as all these prosecutions that I have seen have been, with great fairness and candour; there can be no wish in any body, but that justice should take its usual course; and I have not the smallest doubt or hesitation to declare, no circumstance has been brought home to the prisoner, so as to let Davis in at all. Gentlemen of the Jury, whether from the real circumstances of the case, or the deficiency of the evidence, or their want of recollection, we have at present no evidence at all before the Court against the prisoner at the bar.

NOT GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.