637. JAMES WINGROVE proceedingsdefend This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . was indicted for feloniously assaulting William Grove proceedingsvictim the elder , on the King's highway, on the 9th of May , and putting him in fear and danger of his life, and taking from his person and against his will 2 s. in monies numbered , his monies.

The witnesses examined apart at the request of Mr. Garrow, Prisoner's Council.

WILLIAM GROVE < no role > , the elder, sworn.

I was robbed last Saturday three weeks at night, I am sure of that, I was going home with my cart from Hounslow to Hamworth, I live at Shepperton-green; it was about eleven at night, I cannot say justly, but as nigh as I can guess; James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . stopped me on the road, I knew him when he was apprentice.

Court. Then you knew his person perfectly well? - Not just that minute.

Then we will say that a man stopped you on the Hamworth road, about three miles from Hounslow? - I was not quite off the Heath.

Did he overtake you or meet you? - He came achwart the road, met me like, there were three men on horse-back; this James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . clapped a pistol to my breast and demanded my money.

Were you walking or in the cart? - I was sat down in my cart, he damned me, and said make haste, I told him I was lame, I would make all the haste I could; I gave him two shillings, he asked me if that was all I had, I told him I had a few half pence in my waistcoat pocket; then he put his hand over to my left-hand breeches pocket, and he asked me what I had there, I told him I had some parcels of writings, which would do him no good, and he did not take them; he then went away from me.

How were the other two men employed at this time? - They stood at a distance off, they all three rode off together.

What sort of a night was it? - A very clear night.

Was it moon-light? - No, it was not, but the sky was very clear indeed.

You say you did not at the first know that that was the person? - I did not at first in my fright, but I know it was he that robbed me very well, I knew him very well when we took him, that was the man I know that had my money.

Did you know him at the time of the robbery? - I knew I could know him again.

But you did not know who it was at the time? - No, I did not know then, I was frightened.

How soon after was he taken? - A quarter of an hour was the outside.

Was any body else taken but him? - No, the others rode away.

How was he taken? - Two other men that had been robbed came up and followed him, and told us to follow, and we did; they took this Wingrove, and the others rode away and left us.

Did you see him taken? - Yes, I helped to take him.

What did you pursue with your cart? - Yes, we had not above a mile to go, and we gallopped the cart as fast as we could.

And did you in your cart overtake him on horseback? - They had stopped him, and knocked him off his horse, the other men had, we carried him two miles in the cart afterwards, they would make me carry him.

Mr. Garrow, Prisoner's Council. Are these two gentlemen here, Mr. Grove? - No.

How does that happen? - I do not know.

If they are not here they are not entitled to any of the reward you know? - I do not know.

How long had he been knocked down before you came? - Just that moment.

Which way did they ride after they stopped you? - They rode away for Feltham.

So they rode on so leisurely? - No, No, they did not ride so leisurely.

Who were these two men, let us hear a little about them? - They are not here, they live at Sunbury, one is Humphries and the other Marchant.

What business are they, are not they a sort of moon light men? - It was not moonlight.

Are not they a couple of smugglers? - They may as far as I know.

They go for that they say? - I do not know.

So they told you they had been robbed? - Yes.

Did they attend at the Justice's the next day? - Yes.

Did they give any charge against Mr. Wingrove? - I do not know what you mean by charges.

I believe you do, you are pretty well used to charges; did these two smugglers of your's give any charge against this prisoner? - They are no smugglers of mine.

They are friends of your's? - They are no friends of mine.

Then these two fellows, did they make any charge against Mr. Wingrove for robbing them? - Yes, they did make a charge.

Do not shuffle, Master Grove? - I do not know what you say.

I will make you know directly; upon your oath did not these two men attend the next day at Mr. Taylor's, and say that Wingrove was not one of the men that robbed them? - He is the man that robbed me, I will tell you the truth, he was the man that robbed me, I did not hear them say that he was not the man.

Upon your oath did not they say it? - No, they did not say it, I never heard them say it, that he was not the man that robbed them, I can swear that very safely, I never heard them say any such word as he was not the man.

What did they say about the robbery? - They said he was one of the men in the company.

Is that true that they said he robbed them? - They said he was one in the company.

That they swore? - Yes.

Was he committed for robbing them? - No, he was committed for robbing me.

That is pretty singular you know? - I do not understand the law, I never was in it before.

Who were the two men that robbed you a little while ago? - I never was robbed before.

No, Mr. Grove! - Yes, I have been robbed, but I do not know who they were, and pilfered and too much robbed.

Who were those two men that robbed you? - I do not know.

Have you never said that you knew them? - No, I know nothing about them.

Have you never said that you had been robbed some time ago by two men, that you have never prosecuted them, that they were good friends, and that if you called on them at any time, you could have a guinea of them? - You know, Sir, that is wrong; no, no, Sir, I did not say that I could have money when I pleased, I did not say that I was good friends with the people that robbed me, I swear that I never did say that; they wanted me to screen this here man, and said they would be friends to me; his brother and another man came to me several times.

Court. Did you never say so? - No, never in my life, I never said such a word.

Did you never say such a word? - No.

Mr. Garrow. I will put it now most unequivocally to you, and ask you upon your oath, whether you have never said to Mr. James Clarke < no role > by name, that you had been robbed some time since by two men, whom you have not prosecuted, who lived at Brentford; that they were good friends, and that if you called on them at any time, you could have a guinea of them? - No, never in my life; no, no, they mistook, they came to me and wanted me not -

I ask you a plain question; have you ever said that that I have stated to you? - No.

You never have? - No.

You know the Cock at Stains? - Yes, very well.

What conversation have you had about Wingrove there? - I do not know any more than this stick.

You know that it is not every day that one gets forty pounds for hanging a man; had you no conversation at the Cock at Stains about the reward for conviction? - You ask a hundred questions, I will answer you what I know; no, not about no reward, I have been there, and there they have been asking me about it, that is, we drank together, and I said to him, as I might say to you, I do not know any thing about it; I did not say any such thing, I never said any thing about any reward, that I can say, I have said nothing about no reward.

You remember being at Clerkenwell-green last week? - Yes.

Do you remember having any conversation with any body there upon this subject? - No, no more than any body may speak, and I may speak.

What have you said? - I do not know.

You are sure it was of a Saturday night you was robbed? - Yes I am sure.

Did you see the other two men when you came up to the prisoner? - No.

He was the first man that you came up with? - No, no.

Had you passed any man before you came to him? - I passed no man.

He presented his pistol to you? - Are, he did at first.

Did you find any pistol upon him? - No.

Did you find him in company with any other two men? - He was in company then with two men, but when he was taken, they were rode away.

Was he the same man that took the canvas bag from your son? - Yes.

Did you find that bag upon him? - I did not search him.

Was not he searched in your presence? - I saw no bag, I believe there was no bag found upon him, I do not know that there was.

Do you know there was not? - I believe there was not, I do not know.

It was May-day? - Yes.

It was the day the people dance round the may-poles? - Let them dance if they would, I was lame, I could not dance, I saw chimney-sweepers dance.

What, that day? - Very like it might.

Did you or did you not? - I might.

Did you see the milk people going about? - I saw all folks going about.

What makes you recollect it was May-day? - I told you it was last Saturday three weeks ago.

How do you recollect it was May-day? - I do not know whether it was May-day, I had been in town that day, I had been twice in town before.

What is your business? - Boss-maker and broom-maker.

Was you as drunk that night as you are now, how much have you been drinking to-day? - I might drink a pint with my victuals, I will not swear any thing about it.

How much gin? - I drank no gin.

What other spirits? - I do not love any other spirits, so you are not right there now.

Did you go to the place where this man was knocked down the next morning? - Yes I did, to find his pistol or something or another, I found nothing.

Did you find your two shillings? - I wish I had.

Forty pounds is better than two shillings? - No, I do not know that it is, upon a wrong cause.

When you came up to him you knew it was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . ? - I know he was the man that robbed me.

Did you know, I say, whether it was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . ? - I know it was the man that robbed me.

Court. That is not an answer, what did you say? - I did not know that it was him, I soon found out it was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . , I found it out going along upon the road.

When did you first find it was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . ? - I would not believe it was him at first.

Court. Did he first tell you his name was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . ? - No, he did not, he told me he knew us, and I said, I know you too, then I knew him when he was carrying along the road, I would not believe it was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . , because though I thought he was, I was not quite sure he was; he said he was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . , and I could hardly believe him.

What did you say when you went before Mr. Taylor the magistrate? - I said how that was the man that robbed me.

Before you went there, had you told any body you did not know him? - No, I can swear that v ery safely.

In the course of the day that you went before the magistrate did you? - No, that I did not say any such thing, I never said any such thing.

Did you always say that you had lost two shillings? - Yes, I said I did not know whether it was a shilling and a guinea at first, till I came to look at my money.

Was not it your doubt whether it was not a halfpenny? - No, it was not.

Had you a guinea in your pocket to lose? - No.

Then how could you doubt it if you had not a guinea to lose? - No.

How could you doubt it? - Not till I looked over my money.

Court. Had you a guinea in your bag that day? - Yes, I had, I did not know justly, till I came to consult where I had taken money.

Then you never did tell any body, that you did not know what you had lost, or that you did not know if it was a halfpenny? - I never said that.

WILLIAM GROVE < no role > , the younger, sworn.

I am son to William Grove < no role > , the elder, I was with my father when he was robbed, it was last Saturday night three weeks.

Where? - In Hamworth parish, just as you go off the Heath.

What time of night was it? - Nigh about eleven o'clock.

How many men robbed you? - One.

Did he meet you or overtake you? - He overtook us.

Was he on horseback? - On horseback, I was upon a horse driving the team, and my father was in the cart; the man on horseback overtook me, he asked me where that road went to, I told him, and he asked me how far it was to Chertsey, and I told him about six miles, and he asked me what money I had, he took hold of my horse's bridle, and put a pistol up to my cheek, and I told him I had none; he said I had, and I said I had nothing but a note in my pocket, and I took it out.

Did he do any thing to your father? - He then went away from me and went to my father.

What did he say or do to your father? - He asked him for his money.

What did your father say? - He told him he had but two shillings in his pocket, and he took it and went away.

What did he do with the pistol after he robbed you? - I do not know, I never saw any more of it after he put it to my check.

Did he take any thing from you? - Yes, Sir, a note in a purse.

What note was it? - It was of no account, it was only a bill of parcels of some cheese which I had in my cart.

Was it a moon-light night? - It was not dark, but it was not moon-light.

After he had left you and left your father which way did he ride? - He rode to the back part of the cart, away from me behind.

He rode the opposite way then to what you were going? - Yes.

I suppose you were frightened at the pistol, that made you let one man rob you? - I do not know I was frightened, it was an ugly tool to be frightened with; there were two more with him.

How came you to forget that till now? - I have mentioned it now.

How happened you did not mention it before? - This is the man that robbed me; I mentioned it to Mr. Taylor, the Justice, that there were two more men.

How did these two men employ themselves while the other was robbing you? - One stood at the tail of the cart, and the other stood at the head of the fore horse.

Did the man at the tail of the cart do or say any thing while this man was robbing you both? - No, Sir, nothing at all.

Stood looking on? - Yes; this man ordered the man that stood foremost to go and take what my father had, but he did not take it, and the other went round immediately and took it himself.

Who was this man that robbed you? - James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . .

Did you know that at the time? - No, Sir, I did not, in the morning I knew it was him, we took him directly afterwards.

Then you did not know it that night? - No, Sir, I heard the people say so.

Who said so? - I do not know their names.

Did your father tell you that night that it was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . ? - No.

Nor any body else? - No.

Was he the first that told you the next morning it was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . ? - No.

Then in fact you only heard the name of the man that was in custody was James Wingrove < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . ? - Yes.

Your father knew no more about it than you did? - I knew him no otherwise.

Did your father know him any otherwise? - I do not know; he was taken in a quarter of an hour by Mr. Humfreys and Mr. Marchant; they all three came by me again, and followed the cart, and got before me.

All three? - They were all together when they came by me again.

Were they together when this man was taken? - Yes.

Did the other two make any resistance? - I was not there just at the present.

If they were all together when this man was taken, what became of the other two? - They made their escape.

Then this man was not found alone, the other two had not rode off and left him in the lurch? - No.

Then the first thing your father said to him was, that he had but two shillings in his pocket? - Yes.

He told them that before he took the money? - Yes, he told them he was but a poor man, and had but two shillings.

Mr. Garrow. How many horses had you in the team? - I had two drawing the cart, and one I rode.

Had these people passed you the second time before Humfreys and the other gentleman came up? - Humfreys came by me before this.

I suppose the reason they got off sooner than you, you was heavy laden? - I gallopped as hard as I could, and the cart too.

It was a cart with a tail? - Yes, about ten hundred weight.

Was you with your father when he was robbed some short time ago? - No, not as I know on.

Did you never tell any body it was Sunday night? - No.

Did you never say it was on May-day? - No.

Did you never say it was the 9th? - No.

What coloured clothes are you to have out of the reward of forty pounds? - I am to have no clothes.

Did not your father promise you a suit of new clothes if you would stick to him? - I never heard any such word.

Who told you it would be better to have two indictments against this man, in case one should fail? - Nobody.

Mr. Garrow. Go and sit down by your father, and do not either of you go out of Court.

PRISONER's DEFENCE.

I never saw them at all till they came up to me, when the people had knocked me off my horse; and these people came up to me, and this man stamped on my head, and said he would butcher me, and said damn his eyes, kill him.

FRANCIS NASMITH < no role > sworn.

I am a watch-maker at Staines; I was present when these people went to be examined, and I heard a man come up to the prosecutor and ask him what he was robbed of; and he said it might be a guinea, or a shilling, or it might be two halfpence, he was not sure; and he said he did not know that that was the man: he said he was robbed, but he was not positive that that was the man that robbed him.

JAMES CLARKE < no role > sworn.

I am a printer by trade, I live in Oxford-street; last Sunday was a fortnight Richard Wingrove < no role > came to me, and in consequence of his information I saw Groves, and we entered into conversation respecting the robbery, and during that conversation he informed me that this was not the first time that he had been robbed; that he had been robbed by two men whom he knew, he said these two men were great master carpenters, and lived at Brentford, and he could go to them at any time, be well entertained, and have two or three guineas: if I was dying, them are the words. I never knew any thing amiss of the prisoner; I always understood him as an honest man.

FREDERICK DISMERRITT < no role > , Esq; sworn.

I am son of Colonel Dismerritt < no role > , the prisoner was a servant of our's at the time this robbery was said to be committed; about a week before he said he was going to Windfor to see his wife and family; he has two children at Windsor, and one with his mother; he was a true, faithful, honest servant with us; he was entrusted with every thing, even the keys to go to my father's bureau.

Mr. Garrow. After this, my Lord, I shall not go further; I only did it to set the character of this man right; I do not do it to meet this indictment.

SUSAN FLETCHER < no role > sworn.

I live at Uxbridge, I chare at Colonel Dismerrit < no role > 's, I heard old Groves say last Friday, that he had taken a highwayman, and there was forty pounds depending, and that he would prosecute him.

NOT GUILTY .

Mr. Garrow. I have two applications to make to the Court; one, that the constable may restore the prisoner's watch, and the other, that these two witnesses, the father and son, may be both committed to Newgate; I think it my duty to ask this, as it is a very foul perjury, and I will undertake to prosecute them at my own expence.

Court. Let Groves the elder and younger be both committed to Newgate till they find sureties.

Groves the Elder. This is very hard, my Lord, to lose my money and go to prison too.

638. The said JAMES WINGROVE < no role > This name instance is in set 1402. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . was again indicted for feloniously assaulting William Grove proceedingsvictim the younger , on the King's highway, on the 9th day of May last, and putting him in fear and danger of his life, and feloniously taking from his person and against his will one canvas bag, value 1 d. his property.

There being no further evidence, the prisoner was ACQUITTED .

Mr. Garrow. My Lord, we decline for the present prosecuting these men for perjury, and I am humbly to pray for a copy of the indictment.

Court to William Grove < no role > the elder and younger. The conduct of each of you in this cause has been extremely reprehensible, the best light in which your conduct can stand is, that of rashly charging a man in a case where there is a reward; and you may think yourselves very fortunate that the prisoner and his friends decline an immediate prosecution for perjury; therefore, I shall not order you to be detained, but leave the prisoner to take such remedy as his Council shall advise; and if it is applied for, I shall order a copy of the indictment.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.