357. RICHARD WOOLDRIDGE, otherwise JONAS WOOLDRIDGE proceedingsdefend This name instance is in set 1393. This set is in the group(s): GarrowsClients . , was indicted, for that he, on the 6th day of February last, twenty-nine pieces of false and counterfeit milled money and coin, each of them called a shilling, the same not being then cut in pieces, unlawfully and feloniously did put off to one Elizabeth Levy proceedingsvictim , at a lower rate and value than they did import, against the form of the statute .

A second Count, for that he, on the said 6th day of February last, twenty-nine pieces of false and counterfeit milled money and coin, each of them made and counterfeited to the likeness and similitude of a piece of good, legal and current milled money and silver coin of this realm, called a shilling, unlawfully and feloniously did put off to one Elizabeth Levy < no role > , at the rate of 20 s. for one piece of current gold coin of this realm, called a guinea, against the statute.

ELIZABETH LEVY < no role > sworn.

I live in Catherine-wheel-alley ; I remember the prisoner coming to my house on the 6th day of February, my husband travels in the country, he is a dealer; when the prisoner came, he asked if my husband was at home, and said he wanted to speak with him; he was not at home; I told him I could do very possibly as well as him; with that he said he had some shillings, if my husband could help him to any body that would buy any; I asked him what they were; he said, twenty-nine shillings for a guinea; I asked him to let me look at them, and he did, and I told him that my husband was not at home, but to call again; he came very uncertainly at different times, that my husband could not wait at home; when he came again, I told him I would have some of them; he came again the day he was taken, and I bought three parcels of him; I cannot tell the day of the month: when he came the second time, he had none with him; he said he should call again, they were not ready; he never came to his time; he put some down, and I looked at them, and I looked out three parcels, and was to give him three guineas for them, twenty-nine shillings for a guinea; Mr. Clarke came in at the time, and seized us both; they lay there all ready; he took him and me, and searched him, and found a vast quantity in a bag.

Court. Had you actually paid him the money? - No, but I was going to pay him as Mr. Clarke came in; I had looked the money ready to pay him, and put them up.

Mr. Garrow, Prisoner's Council. My Lord, I meant to make the objection on the words of the statute, the indictment charges,

"that he did put off."

Mr. Justice Gould. Is not that putting off, delivering it to another?

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . I take putting off to be the same thing as actually disposing, that is my construction upon it.

Mr. Garrow. I meant to take the objection, but if the Court is clear in favour of the prisoner, I need not.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . No, my brother Gould and me differ, I think putting off is the same as selling; the case here is this, while this woman was in treaty, Clarke < no role > the officer comes and seizes her; the prisoner had put them down, there were three parcels of them, and he was to receive three guineas; but before he received it, and they are ready for her, Clarke comes in and sweeps them away; the thing is not done.

Mr. Justice Gould. I concur with that most clearly.

Mr. Sylvester. She says, he came and agreed with me; apply to the woman herself.

Mr. Garrow. You should not mend the witness's evidence.

Mr. Sylvester. I never wish to mend a witness's evidence, the interposition came so soon.

Mr. Garrow. I was going to object, and my Lord made the objection, and I hope now that Mr. Sylvester shall not ask the question; I was standing up to cross examine, and now Mr. Sylvester tells your Lordship it had been agreed, and he is now to ask the witness whether it was agreed; suppose she had said upon looking at them, no, Sir, I cannot afford it, I will give you two guineas and a half for it, that is not the meaning of the statute, the contract must be compleat; the indictment states this substantive fact, that he did put off; now, as to that, what is the evidence? was the contract perfectly compleat between these parties? was there any money paid? might not the contract be dissolved?

Mr. Sylvester. It has not been very usual to object to questions before they are heard; all I desired was, that the witness for the Crown, who is now sworn, might tell her own story, without being interrupted by me or that gentleman.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . Mr. Garrow did stand up to cross examine.

Mr. Justice Gould. The thing is as my brother Perryn has taken it; the money was put down; I am of opinion, upon the construction of the act of parliament, that the offence is not compleated till it is received, and taken by the party to whom it is offered; then the evidence is, that Clarke came in before this woman had touched any of this money, and swept it all off.

Mr. Sylvester. I understand that she had received it intirely.

Elizabeth Levy < no role > . I had looked them out, and bought them, and was going to pay him.

Mr. Garrow. She said they were ready for her to have.

Levy. He had told me the price before.

Mr. Sylvester. Had you taken possession of them? - Yes, I did, and put them in three different places on the table; they were in a bag, and he took them out of the bag.

Then this silver was reckoned out to you, and you put them in three parcels? - I had reckoned every parcel, there was twenty-nine shillings in every parcel; then Mr. Clarke came in and took the prisoner, and took the remainder of them from him in a bag; he had not those about him that I had bought; and he took those that I had bought off from the table; Mr. Clarke said how came you here, says he, what are you about? he made answer, nothing at all, I do not know how I came here; I was at a stand when Mr. Clarke came in, it shocked me so I did not know what to do; Mr. Clarke asked me what that was, and I told him I had bought it.

Mr. Garrow. You was very much shocked at his coming, though you expected his visit? - I expected it much sooner than he came.

So, you having invited a gentleman, and he not coming to his time, you were very much shocked at seeing him; is that so, Mrs. Levy? - Yes, Sir.

You had told us all that you knew about it when my Lord stopped you before? - Yes, Sir.

You had had two or three conversations with this man before? - Yes.

You made an appointment with Clarke to come and meet him? - Yes, there were three parcels on the table, I had not paid for them, I was going to pay for them, I had agreed, and was going to get the money at the pawnbrokers.

Oh! that is your idea of a purchase; what was you going to pawn this bad silver? - They would not take them in.

Oh! they would not? - I suppose not, I am not acquainted with this sort of business.

You knew you was subjecting yourself to an indictment for a felony?

Mr. Sylvester. That is not law.

Mr. Garrow. I beg your pardon.

Mr. Justice Gould. You ought not to put it on that ground, you might as well call those accomplices to highwaymen, that go to take the highwaymen.

Mr. Garrow. I shall shew the Jury the character of this witness.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . This woman has had frequent communications with this man, and she seems to me to be a decoy duck.

Mr. Garrow. How much money had you in your pocket? - About a guinea, or twenty-five or twenty-six shillings; I was going to the pawnbroker's.

What are you? - I dare say you can see.

But I wish the Jury to know what are you, who are you? - A woman, I cannot give you any better account than that.

That is unlucky; is that the only account you ever gave in this place? - The only account I ever gave in my life.

Is it; why, I believe my learned friend has cross-examined you before now? - I never was here in my life.

Upon your oath, was you never at that bar in your life? - I was never at that bar.

Are you a married woman ? - Yes, I am a married woman, and have two children.

Your husband is a pedlar when he is at liberty? - He is at liberty now.

Is not he in Newgate at this time? - No.

What is his other name besides Levy, is not it Lyon? - No, Sir, now you are quite out.

What is it?

Mr. Sylvester. It is very unnecessary to know the history of this woman.

Mr. Justice Gould. I think these trials ought to proceed with more gravity:

Mr. Garrow. My Lord, the want of gravity comes from the witness, and not from me, I cannot help the Court laughing at the nonsense of the witness; I am instructed, that her husband is now in the gaol of Newgate, and is to receive mercy in consequence of this woman's evidence here. - Then you are instructed very wrong, I assure you.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . I do not see myself the impropriety of that question, because what that gentleman alledged last night in the case of Mrs. Rudd, with respect to the evidence of Mrs. Perreau, the Court refused to receive her evidence, because she thought the consequence would be, that her husband would receive mercy; and if this woman had now said, that the consequence of this man's conviction would be that her husband would receive mercy, it would have been material.

Mr. Sylvester. I believe the law is, that it cannot go to the competency of a witness; nor do I believe in that case that the Court refused Mrs. Perreau on that; I believe it was put to Mr. Bearcroft, whether he chose to examine her upon it or not.

Court. If it went to her credit, the question was proper.

Mr. Garrow. If any body has told the witness, it will have that operation.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . I know a witness was rejected by Lord Chief Baron Parker < no role > , because he was under an honorary consideration to pay costs, not a compulsory one.

Mr. Garrow. Was you never in the custody of an officer before this time? - No.

Never for receiving stolen goods? - I never did receive any stolen goods; there is several of the name.

And you neither had paid for these things, nor had the three guineas to pay for them? - No, not quite.

Pray Mrs. Levy, I am desired to ask you another question, give a serious answer upon your oath; has not your husband very recently been in custody for putting off bad guineas? - No, not bad guineas.

For some offence about coining? - No, Sir, I will tell you; this was the second time that this man came; the first of this man's coming to me, he came with half a guinea, my husband was not at home, nor knew nothing at all about it; I told him when he came home, and I looked at it; says I, it is bad, and I would not have any thing at all to do with any bad money; he went away and came on the Monday; he asked me if my husband was at home, and I told him he was not; he bade me keep it, and he begged me to tell my husband to see if he could get any customers; on the Thursday, my husband took the half guinea, and went into that gentleman's shop to buy some tea and sugar, and that gentleman said it was bad.

Mr. Garrow. Your husband then was in custody, on a charge of having put off a bad half guinea? - He was in custody for having this half guinea.

Your husband being in custody on this subject, you then laid this scheme to bring the prisoner to your house? - I could not, I did not know where he lived, he frequently came and brought me silver after he knew this.

When was your husband discharged? - He was not discharged, he was bailed.

Mr. Sylvester. And he is now to be tried? - Yes.

Mr. Garrow. Now, my Lord, I ask her the question in Mrs. Rudd's case; I ask you, upon your oath, whether you have not laid this scheme to bring that man here, for the purpose of bringing off your husband? - Upon my oath I have not.

Do not you expect that the conviction of that man at the bar will prevent the prosecution of your husband? - I do not expect it.

Do not you hope it? - I do not hope to convict any body.

Do not you hope your husband will be discharged? - I do not suppose he will be discharged.

Did you never say so to that gentleman? - I never said any thing to that gentleman.

Did you never promise that gentleman to take the prisoner? - I never promised any body, I did not promise any such a thing, you want to persuade me that I told him things; there is as much honesty in me as there is in you.

Have not you been told that your husband will be discharged? - I have told you several times that nobody has told me so.

Have you, then I did not understand you. - Then I tell you so now.

Do not you expect it will be better for your husband, if that man is convicted? - I do not expect any thing about it.

Do you believe it? - I believe very little about it, indeed.

You are an unbeliever, is that the case? - Like yourself.

I do not believe what you say, if you you mean that; where is your husband? - I must be a witch or a wizard to know where he is now, I have been here since nine this morning, he was in bed when I came out this morning; if you was on the bench, I am sure you would cast him right or wrong.

Did not you lay this scheme to bring the prisoner to your house, that your husband might be discharged? - You could not blame me if I did.

Mr. Sylvester. This man came to you with half a guinea? - Yes.

What did he offer half a guinea for? - Eight shillings and sixpence, I paid him for that.

After that he came several times to offer you silver? - Yes.

You did not know where the prisoner lived? - No.

But you gave information that the prisoner had been with you? - Yes, I did not know his name, I had several times seen him with this silver; I had agreed for the payment of the money, and had received it from him.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . If you cannot carry this matter any further than the evidence that is now adduced, I am of opinion it is not sufficient evidence, therefore it is the business of the Court to decide on that question, and if my brother Gould is of the same opinion with me, I shall not reserve this case.

Mr. Sylvester. It is your Lordship's wish as well as mine, that the determinations of the Court should be consistent, and that one day we should not reject evidence, which another we received; I do not believe there is an objection that can be stated by the ingenuity of man, but what has been taken, and has been considered; I defy the ingenuity of this gentleman to find a new objection; I remember this objection being taken, and taken by myself, and over-ruled; the answer to me has been this, the offence is compleat on the prisoner if he puts it off to you, and gives you the possession of it, he has done as much as in him lays; to do the subsequent part lays in the witness, to give the money; no one of the Gentlemen of the Jury would have have paid the money, but the moment he had possession of these counterfeit shillings, he would immediately have taken the prisoner up: I only wish we may know how far it is or is not evidence.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . Upon the cross-examination of this woman, she has carried her testimony farther than she did on her examination in chief; and as you have another indictment against this man, why should you be so anxious to have a determination upon this.

Mr. Sylvester. My Lord, I wish it.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . If my brother Gould concurs with me, the man must be acquitted; but if he thinks it such a case as is proper for the consideration of all the Judges, it shall be reserved for their opinion.

Mr. Justice Gould. I concur that nothing can be more clear, than that the act must be done according to the terms of the act of Parliament, and whatever progress it may have made towards it, if it is not finally compleated and finished, it does not reach that crime: however it may be right to take every possible method to repress such pernicious practices as these, the Judges are bound not to stretch laws that are to affect the lives of their fellow subjects: I remember a case I tried at York, and I reserved it; it was an indictment for coining a guinea and a half-guinea; the guinea was struck between two dies, with the head and with the reverse compleat; it was then delivered by the coiner, (for there was actual proof of the fact itself, of its being delivered) to a person standing by, and the purpose of it was manifestly and unquestionably to go and get it changed; but in the state that it was delivered out, the edges were rough, and it would not pass; nobody would take it; nothing could be proved of what became of this piece of counterfeit money: the objection as it has struck my brother now occurred to me, that it was treason brought very near to completion, but not quite completed: I let the trial go on, I acquainted the late Mr. Wallace, a man very eminent and particularly so in the laws of this country; I said, I did not chuse to let this pass publicly in the hearing of this whole county, for Yorkshire was then very famed for this, and I reserved the case: the opinion of the Judges was, that I was right in my conception, that the piece not being compleatly finished, it did not amount to high treason. The act of Parliament in this case says, shall take, receive, pay, or put off: now take the common idea of that; a man comes to a tradesman to pay for a piece of goods, that he is buying in his shop, before the tradesman has delivered his goods he discovers this counterfeit money, the man intended and meant, if you please, to put off that money, but it had not its effect, it was stopped before it reached the goal; the legislature in my opinion upon the act of Parliament that occurred to me, have themselves decided this matter, in the act of the fifteenth and sixteenth of his late Majesty, there the offence, which I apprehend this amounts to is provided for; if any person after such a day shall offer or tender in payment any false or counterferfeit money, he shall be liable to be imprisoned for six months: this was offering and tendering this false money, and it would clearly come within that act of Parliament, but within the term pay or put off as it strikes my idea, it falls short of the import conveyed by those words, therefore I do concur in opinion with my brother Perryn; altho' it is said here at the bar, that this matter has passed several times here, and then we are told that all the ingenuity of council cannot invent a new objection, that there is no objection that could occur to the ingenuity of man, but has been started here and thoroughly discussed; I confess, I never heard a question of this kind before, therefore it comes to me purely and simply upon the terms of this act of Parliament, and if we are to understand these words not with a legal acceptation, but a vulgar acceptation, what does a man mean when he says I put off such a half-guinea? why, I have got rid of it; therefore we ought to refer to the natural acceptation of the term, and this evidence does not reach it: therefore I am of opinion that in point of law the offence is not proved.

Mr. Sylvester. My Lord, that act of Parliament your Lordship mentions is for offering, or tendering in payment, as and for a good piece of legal coin, false money as good money; the objection would be, it cannot come within that act of Parliament, he does not utter it, or pay it as good money, he pays it as bad money.

Mr. Baron Perryn < no role > . It is not usual to reply to the Court, you have heard the opinion of the Court.

Mr. Justice Gould. You should look at the act of Parliament, the words are,

"shall after such a day offer or tender in

"payment any false or counterfeit money,

"knowing the same to be false and counterfeit."

NOT GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN < no role > .