40. (M.) William Horsford proceedingsdefend was indicted for breaking the house of Thomas Poor proceedingsvictim , and by force enter, on the 9th of August , about eleven at night, with intent, feloniously, to cut and destroy raw silk, then and there being in a loom in the said dwelling-house, not having the consent of the owner. It was laid also, that he did enter the house by force, with intent, feloniously and willfully, to cut and destroy one hundred yards of silk manufactory, value 100 l. the property of Joseph Horton proceedingsvictim , then being in a loom in the house of Thomas Poor < no role > , not having the consent of the owner. It was laid also for entering by force, and feloniously, willfully, and maliciously, did cut and destroy silk mixed with other materials, being in a loom in the said house, not having the consent of Joseph Horton < no role > , the owner, and also did break one reed, value 1 l. the property of the said Joseph Horton < no role > , in the house of the said Thomas Poor < no role > , being a tool used in the making silk manufactory, not having the consent of the owner, and also did break and destroy a harness, value 5 s. the property of Joseph Horton < no role > , being a tackle used in making silk manufactory, or silk mixed with other materials, not having the consent of the owner . *

The witnesses were examined a part.

Thomas Poor < no role > . I don't know where I live now. I did live in Shoreditch, in Stocking-frame-alley . I am a weaver . I kept seven looms there at that time in my house.

Q. Can you inform the court and the jury of any transactions that past about the beginning of August last?

Poor. On the beginning of August I went to bed about ten o'clock. I cannot take upon me to give a particular account of the day; it was on a Tuesday, at night. My wife and I had been about an hour and an half in bed: I could not, nor did not sleep; but we lay and slumbered. We heard a great noise of people coming up stairs; they came thundering and rapping at the outward door of the house. At the passage coming in, they cried out, Mary Poor < no role > , you old whore, open the door! Poor, you son of a whore, open the door! or we will break it in. My wife said, My dear, stay in bed, and don't get up, for they will have more tenderness and mercy on a woman than on a man. I thought to get up, but she would not let me. They kept still crying, Blast you! you whore! you roghe! let us in! or we will tear down the door. Gentlemen, said she, have patience, give me leave to put on my petticoats; for you don't know whether I have a smock on. Blast your eyes! said they again, you never was without one. They kept rapping at the door before she would give them entrance. Gentlemen, at last, said she, be easy, and I will open the door. Then she came out and opened the door. We lay up one-pair-of stairs. She did not go down stairs after we came out of our chamber. Our street door is on our right hand, within about two feet of the chamber door. We heard them come up stairs; there is no outward door; they kept thundering at my room door. There is no fastening but only my room door. You come up one-pair-of stairs, the door is right before you. When the door is open, there is a little passage on the right hand to go into the shop by my room. I can't tell how many came in; but I can tell how many went out. I saw them all go out. They went into the shop where all the looms and work were. I did not go up till I heard the weight stones fall. Then I went and held my room door in my hand. My wife was then in the shop with them. I believe the stones fell in about two minutes after they were there.

Q. Can you tell the jury the use of the weight-stones.

Poor. They are to keep the work stiff to work. The weight is hung to the cane roll. I believe there may be about three quarters of a hundred weight, or near a hundred weight upon the roll.

Q. How long might they continue in the work shop?

Poor. I believe they were there about eight or ten minutes. They past near me when they came out. I saw seven come out in the whole. The prisoner was one of them; he, and two more of them, came in about two steps into my chamber, and shook hands with my wife, and said, Good night, mother Poor. I am sure he was one of them, as sure as I am here. I had hold of the door at the time. My wife was standing just on the inside.

Q. Which side does your door open, within or without?

Poor. My door opens within side. I was just by the door, with my head looking out at the door, which was about half open; she came back out of the workshop when the first of them came out.

Q. Did you know the prisoner before?

Poor. I have known him, I believe, about four years and a quarter. I have eat and drank in his company sundry and sundry times.

Q. Had you any light in the house?

Poor. No, I had not. I had only a large window. After this they all came down, and went out, and cryed out, Blast your eyes! are you all out? and fixed a shot. They spoke hoarse, like a boatswain of a man of war.

Q. Did you see any weapons in the hands of them?

Poor. No, I did not.

Q. Can you say there was light enough to distinguish their faces?

Poor. There was: I saw them, in a manner the same, almost, as I see you now. I could not otherwise chose but see them. After they were gone, I struck a light, and went into the workshop. There were some pieces all lying about.

Q. Did the prisoner speak with a feigned voice, when he spoke to your wife?

Poor. No, he did not, he spoke in a common way. I knew it to be his voice at that time.

Q. Was every thing right when you went to bed the night before?

Poor. They were all right and fit for working. The reed and things were all in their proper places, and when I went into the room, after they were gone, I found the work cut, hanging, some by one cord, and some by another. It was cut cross. It was bombazeen. The cane was all silk. Those things in my hand are what they call harness, that we work with, and this is the deed produced in court, the harness broke, the reed beat.

Q. Is not there worsted in bombazeen?

Poor. It is shot down with worsted. There was about half a yard or three quarters of a yard of it made. It was silk and worsted when made; that was rolled upon the roll; that that was cut was the warping, joining to that that was completely made; about a yard distance from that that was cut, consisted of all silk; that that was made and rolled on the roll, was then not worth a pin to make any use of it. It was not worth a penny to any one, without to any poor body to make a pinch of.

Q. Do you call the harness a tool or a tackle?

Poor. This is that that makes the work that goes up and down. We tread it up and down with out feet, and we strike the reed in at every shoot. They belong to Mr. Horton, and the silk belongs to him. The reed is not worth a pin now. They gave it a cut with a hanger, besides the beading of it. I found it worse than it is now. It was like the screw of a bottle. (probably he meant a cork-screw) I saw the prisoner after he was taken before Sir John Fielding < no role > , which was, I believe, the last day of the last sessions. They told me he was there in the name of Stroud. He was sitting there, he reached out his hand, and shook hands with me. I said, Will. Horsford, how are you? he shook his head at me, and spoke in Irish for me to have compassion on him.

Q. Are you an Irishman?

Poor. I am. I repeated in English, Will. you had no compassion on me when you destroyed me, and when you was of the Defiance sloop.

Q. Explain the meaning of that.

Poor. They gave themselves the title of that, these men the cutters.

Q. What did he say in answer?

Poor. He told me I was doing this for the sake of money. Sir John opened the door, and asked if Poor was come. The man said I was. Sir John asked me if I knew the prisoner Stroud. I said, I did not know Stroud, but I knew the prisoner William Horsford < no role > This name instance is in set 3687. . Sir John asked him then how he came to change his name? or was that his name? He came up to the bar and said. It is true, William Horsford < no role > is my name. Sir John bid him keep himself from the violent tongue of a man and a woman.

Poor, on his Cross-Examination, said to the following Purport:

"He always called the place he lived in a house; he rented it of Mr. Dean; that under his room Mr. Dean has a warehouse for wool, and he believed Mr. Dean had three or four combers lived over his room; that their stairs lie another way, and no body had communication with his stairs but himself; that he took his apartment by the year, and were to give each other a quarter's warning, and he paid his rent monthly, sometimes in two months, and sometimes three months at a time; that he had paid 26 s. and 8 d. for two months, computed by the year at 8 l. a year; he would not be positive whether he ever paid a single month; he does not remember the day of the month his silk was cut; but that it was on a Tuesday, and it must be about the 6th or the 10th of August; and that he could not fix it nearer. It was not before the 6th; on the Monday there was work cut out in Quaker's street, and they cut his work the next night; that they came about a quarter after eleven, and the clock struck twelve after they were gone, and he had lighted a candle; his bed room is very small, only for a bed, a chest of drawers, and a chair; they made several strokes with heavy weapons at the door; the door was nor a slender door, neither was it a very stout door; they did not break it. He counted seven of them when they went out, John Doyle < no role > This name instance is in set 29053674. , Bill Duff < no role > , Joe Colman < no role > , (who commonly went by the name of Jolly Dog,) Andrew Mahoney < no role > , Thomas Pickles < no role > , William Horsford < no role > , the prisoner, and John Valloine < no role > This name instance is in set 29063694. , all weavers. He knew them all at that time as well as he knew the prisoner at the bar then. His wife came into the bed room on his right hand, as he had the door about half open, having it in his left hand. Three of them came about a couple of steps into the room, and shook hands with her; there were no more than seven of them, as he saw; there were a great many more without; that Mahoney, Valloine, and the prisoner, shook hands with his wife; that Mahoney and the prisoner bid her a good night. It was a light night; he could not say it was a moon-light night, nor a cloudy night. It was light enough to see any one of them. The window is very large, with three or four square panes in a row. It was light enough to see a rat at the time, was it to run a-cross the passage. There is a building opposite the window; he cannot tell how near; the light comes down right; he had lived in the house a year and some odd months; he is almost certain that he could stand at his chamber door: and see the sky; that at the window he could see it very plentifully; he cannot tell which was the first of the three that shook hands, she believes he is certain almost that the prisoner was the last; that the work was cut in the first loom on the right hand going into the shop; that there were seven looms in the shop; that there is one window reaches all along; he was told the shop was thirty-six feet long; that the shop must be lighter than the passage, though he could see, and knew the mens faces, yet he lighted a candle to see what damage was done; that he could see the harness hanging down without the candle; he did not know the christian name of Mr. Horton till the day before; the loom was his own property; he heard of a reward two years ago for apprehending the cutters; and at the time his work was cut, he heard, in one of the Papers, it was 500 l. and in another not so much; some more, some less. He could not tell that it was 500 l. for one person; that he had been sundry times examined before Sir John Fielding < no role > ; that he had been once examined by Mr. Francis and Mr. Nuthall; he made a discovery, because he was driven to poverty by those people the committee men; that he first discovered it to an elderly gentleman at Sir John Fielding < no role > 's; that Valloine took a warrant for his wife; she abused him, and he called her old whore! that his wife was put in Bridewell by Doyle, and he went and made a discovery that night at Sir John Fielding < no role > 's of his work being cut; which was a week and better after his goods were destroyed; the fir st time he made a discovery, was within three weeks after the silk was cut; that his furniture were destroyed the last day of August; he never made a discovery till Doyle got a warrant for his wife, and sent her to Bridewell; that night he made the first discovery; that he accused Doyle, Valloine, Duff, Mahoney, Will. Colman, and Mike More < no role > ; that was at the Devil tavern, to a justice of peace; he did not know his name; that all he saw at the time were a couple of clerks, the justice, and another gentleman; his wife was fetched out of Bridewell that night and brought there; that time he has not followed his business he has been supported by the goodness of every gentleman that would give him something; when he gave himself up first, he was sent to Tothil-fields Bridewell; after that he was removed to the Tower-hamlet, and was paid for at the two places by several gentlemen out of charity, not having coat or waistcoat to his back; does not know who the money came from; that Mr. Eliot, the high constable, paid for his board; being asked if he never gave out that he was going to take a publick house; answered his wife did, he did not know where the money was to come from; being asked if he did not apply to Mr. Depont for ten guineas, he said he never did, but believed his wife asked for something; being asked if he did not ask for 170 l. to put him in a publick house, said, what asking was, was by his wife; he believed there were some words past between Mr. Traquan and she, but does not know what it was about; he believes the substance of the conversation was about money to put him in a publick house; he declared he did not know what answer Mr. Traquan gave, not taking particular notice; being asked whether he did not declare, that when the sessions was over at the Old Bailey, he should be handsomely rewarded; answered he should be rewarded with what the government would allow him, and that he had been told that by a great many people, and it was said, that when the sessions was over, he should be put in a way of business; that he had promises made him by gentlemen, but does not know who they were."

MaryPoor. I am wife to Thomas Poor < no role > . I remember people coming to our house on the 8th of August, between eleven and twelve at night; then they entered my house, and they went out of it exactly at twelve. The first alarm was a hoarse voice. I was in my bed slumbering. My husband said to me, Mary, there are the cutters! I sat still in my bed some time. They called dog and b - h! They came to the outward door of my dwelling-house. I said, gentlemen, stop till I put my petticoats on, when I found they went to work with violence. I got up and opened the door. The first man that entered my door was the man that was convicted, name John Doyle < no role > This name instance is in set 2905. ; then the gang gathered in together. I knew every man of them at their coming in.

Q. Name them.

M. Poor. John Doyle < no role > , John Valloine < no role > This name instance is in set 2906. , Andrew Mahoney < no role > , Will. Horsford, the prisoner, Wm Duff < no role > , Pat Pickle, Jos. Coleman, (that is Jolly Dog they call him) and Mickey More < no role > . Doyle laid his sword and pistol upon my breast; he did me no offence. I knowing them so well, I was not frightened much. I put my head out and bid him take them away. I had called him by his name at coming in; he said, you whore, go into the shop. I said, do not hurt my roll. The prisoner was one of them. Young Mahoney < no role > came and took me about my neck, and held his cheek to my cheek, and took hold of my shoulder, and held me by my hands, and bid me never fear; upon that Valline took and cut down the loom that I had hold of at the time: I mean the piece in the loom, the property of Mr. Horton. They went then to the upper end of the shop, and the prisoner said, Here is another piece of bombazeen. I said, gentlemen, that is not Horton's; the prisoner said, You old whore, whose is it? I could not tell what to say, because it was Mr.Horton's. My little boy said, gentlemen, gentlemen, that is Mr. Champion's! he was in bed at the time in the room. Young Mahoney < no role > said, Do no more here to-night; we will begin with Champion's to-morrow night; after that they all went out of the shop; I went out before them; my husband stood with the door in his hand. I went in the inside the door of my room, about two feet. Young Mahoney < no role > , the prisoner, John Doyle < no role > , and John Valline < no role > This name instance is in set 2906. , shock hands, and bid me a good night mother Poor. I was on the inside of my room; my husband was on the same spot.

Q. Did they say any thing to your husband?

M. Poor. No.

Q. Did they see him?

M.Poor. I do'nt know that: they knew he was there to be sure; they had cut the bombazeen, and hurt the harness and the reed; Duff bent that against his knee; then with his sword he took and gave it a scratch; it fell on the ground along with the harness, I think.

Q. Did you see the prisoner there?

M. Poor. The Lord stop me for it, if I did not. I met him after that in a place called Quaker's-street; I asked him if he would drink share of a pint of beer; he said, yes. We went into the Castle. I said, I wish I could see young Mahoney; he said, he wanted to see him too. I got up and left the pint of beer upon the table. I saw young Mahoney and his wife; he lived just facing the place. I went over and called him into the yard. I fetched him and his wife; we had another pint. I said to the prisoner, if you had gone through all London, I thought you would not have come to destroy me. He said he would not, or he could not save me (I think it was could not) if I was his sister. We had three pints of beer, which I paid for.

Q. Did you make application to him after?

M. Poor. Yes, several times; one day in particular he met me; it was about four or five days after, in Webb-square. He said, Do I meet you? my blood boils! I said, why? He said, I was at Brian Conner < no role > 's, and that the quill-boy said I had been cursing the cutters. I told him, you nor nobody else ought to notice people for cursing the cutters; then I trembled and came home, and told my husband of it the first in the house. I applied to the prisoner several times after my household goods were cut, which was on the last of August. < no role > I applied so often to him it is almost hard for me to tell. About seven or eight days after the last day of August, my husband went to some of these men; he said, he was not at the cutting of them. I said to the prisoner it is so long ago my husband dare not work, and my curtains, and my bed, and things were all destroyed; What must I do? He said, I will speak to them, and do what is in my power.

Q. Who do you mean by them?

M. Poor. I mean the committee of weavers and cutters; and I related my distress; I have gone to the committee several times; one time in particular I saw Horsford there, at the Duke of Northumberland's head, at the end of Gun-street; I went in with a journeyman of ours. I said, How do you do, Mr. Horsford? He said the same; he said, I want to speak to you, mother; I said, what do you want to say? said he, if you will be upstairs I'll tell you. I said, I have been called whore and b - h, I did not care to go up for such usage.

On M. Poor's cross examination she spoke to the following purport.

"She said, she hears by the two journeymen, the silk was cut on the 8th of August; that the cutters were all her acquaintance for four years past; that she could have known the prisoner in the darkest corner in London; that she saw him by the light of the stars and the light of the moon, what moon there was, so plain that she could not be deceived; that after they were out of her house, she saw them go into a neighbour's house as plain as she then saw the counsel that asked her questions; that she saw them when in her shop; that the shop was nothing but glass; that there were seven or eight of them; that after they were out of her house they fired a pistol, and said, all was well; that she had always said there were seven or eight of them; that there were several others in the shop besides the cutters, and one of them lay dead asleep; that her husband had either four or five journeymen, she could not tell which; that three of them laid in the shop. Thomas Clark < no role > laid with her child; that Clark in particular got out of bed, and ran under another bed; that there was another young fellow she thinks was named Stevens; he never spoke; he was asleep till after they were gone, and she awaked him by saying, was you asleep, or was you dead? that there was Thomas Riley < no role > laid in the room, and was awake, but she said he said at the Old Bailey, on the other trial, that his head was covered; that she knew he was awake by her just laying her finger upon him; that these people did not lie so near the door as she and her husband did; that the bed that Clark laid in was by another loom, facing the loom where the silk was cut, in a nook by the side of the chimney; that the head of Steven's bed lay to another pair of stairs, going down; that they lay so that they could not but hear, if they had a mind to hear; that Riley and Stevens laid in one bed; that they kept their bed all the time; that Clark, to her knowledge, was not in the room, so as to see any of this; that she called for him after they were gone, and could not find him, and then, when she saw him, she said, Are not you ashamed to see a woman stand in her smock? that the cutters all of them had cutlasses in their hands; that they brought them in holding them up in their hands; that she did not know whether they went out as they came in; that she did not know as they were armed as they went out; she was exceedingly frighted; that they did not leave their arms with her. Being asked how she came to be so flurried at the latter end and so cool at the beginning, she said knowing them all perfectly well she was not much frighted; that she was flurried upon seeing her bread going; she could not say she saw their weapons when they shook hands with her; that the last man that shook hands with her was Valline to the best of her knowledge; that Mahoney was the first, because he kept her with his hands till she came out of the shop with him; that the ninth of August, the next night, she did not go to bed at all, she was afraid of her life; that she could not directly tell the day of the month, she first gave information of the affair; she believed it might be a fortnight after. Being asked, when it was she was sent to Bridewell, she said she was sent to Clerkenwell Bridewell long and long and long after her goods were cut; that she was sent to Bridewell for assaulting Doyle and another; that before that she had not gone to a justice of the peace and given information; that she made the information the same night that she was sent to Bridewell; that she had spoke to other people about it, and she was both hungry and dry, and she begged of people to put her in the way of it; that at their cutting the work out, they said they would begin with Champion's the next night. Being asked what reason she had to think they would cut Mr. Horton's rather than Mr.Champion's work, she said there were two that worked for Mr. Champion, and they would save their own master's work; none of them worked for Mr. Horton; that she did not give notice to Mr. Champion, that his work was to be cut the next night, being afraid of her life; that she laid at Limehouse seventeen nights; that the shop was so light she could see to know a man's face; that she could not have seen a mouse or rat. Being asked, if it was light enough in the shop to see a cat, she said, indeed, she did not observe her eye was not upon the ground; it was at their faces; that she did not speak to none of her journeymen; but she saw Clark get out of bed, and run towards the other end of the shop, and he told her, and her husband afterwards, he got under a bed, and the women made game of him; that she saw him as plain as she then saw the council that asked her questions. Being asked how much money she asked not to make information against the cutters; said she never asked any, but did desire Mr. Horton to pay fifty-three shillings, on account of the loom; but she was offered thirty guineas by Ned Mackaway < no role > , at the Brown Bear < no role > . Being asked whether she had not said she knew 17 of the cutters, and unless they would raise her some money she would discover them; she answered, she never did say so. Being asked whether she did not write to Mr. Chauvet, she said, she took a letter to him which a woman wrote, by her desire; and that was two or three days before she was sent to Bridewell; that she desired people to direct her which way she might go to make application, to make information against the men, for they would not let her husband and her work; that she heard there was 500 l. advertised for a discovery about cutting Mr. Chauvet's work; and that she applyed to Mr. Chauvet, having heard he was a sufferer.

Mary Mahoney < no role > . I was at the Castle alehouse with Mrs. Poor, and the prisoner Horsford, in Quaker-street; she asked him how he could go to her house; he said he could not spare her if she was his own sister.

Q. Was there any conversation about the time, of what he did at her house?

M. Mahoney. No, there was not.

Q. How long is this ago?

M. Mahoney. I believe it is about five or six months ago.

Q. Do you remember the time when the work was cut in Poor's house?

M. Mahoney. I heard speak of it. It was after that two or three days. I cannot tell to a day.

William Poor < no role > . I am son to Thomas Poor < no role > . I am 14 years of age. On the 8th of August our work was cut in my father's house. There was William Horsford < no role > , and the rest of his gang, Valloine, John Doyle < no role > , and Mahoney. There were five or six in the shop. Doyle stood up against the loom, while Valline cut the work. Mahoney stood with his hands round my mother's neck, and her hands in his hands. Horsford went just by my bed, and then he went down to the other end of the shop, and said here is another bombazeen; let us cut it. Mahoney made answer and said, No. My mother said, That is not Mr. Horton's, because she did not want to have that cut, and I made answer, That is Mr. Champion's. Then young Mahoney said, We will cut no more to night, we will begin with Champion to-morrow night.

Q. Did you know Horsford before?

W. Poor. I did.

Q. How long have you known him?

W. Poor. I have known him three years, or better. I have often seen him.

Q. Where did you lie?

W. Poor. I lay in the place where the looms were?

Cross-Examination.

Q. You have got this by heart, How many times have you said it over?

W. Poor. Only, but when I was in court here before.

Q. What, never but that time?

W. Poor. I have, in my own mind; but never to any body else.

Q. How many times have you said it over in you own mind?

W. Poor. I cannot tell. I have repeated it to myself several times.

Q. When was the last time?

W. Poor. I repeated it to myself to-day, before I came into court?

Q. Who was present?

W. Poor. There were people present; but I did not speak at all, but just the words in my own mind.

Q. Did any body speak to you about it?

W. Poor. No, no-body did.

Q. Whereabouts in the shop did you lie?

W. Poor. I lay at one end, and when the men came in, called Cutters, I got up. Thomas Clark < no role > lay with me, and when the door was open for them to come in, he got out from my bed, and ran under one of the other beds.

Q. Do you remember the day of the month?

W. Poor. I heard it was the 8th, I thought it was the 9th, but I hear it is the 8th.

Q. Are you certain you saw the prisoner there?

W. Poor. I am. I have seen him several times before.

Q. Was you not frightened?

W. Poor. I was frightened when they were rattling at the door; but when they came in I was not frightened, because I knew them.

Q. Was it a dark or a light night?

W. Poor. It was a very light night.

Q. Do you remember whether the moon shone?

W. Poor. I don't know.

Q. What did Mahoney do? Did you say?

W. Poor. Mahoney had his hands about my mother's neck, and her hands in his hands.

Q. Had he any sword in his hand?

W. Poor. He had no sword in his hand. He might have one about him for what I know.

Q. Did you see any?

W. Poor. No.

Q. How near was you to Horsford at any time?

W. Poor. I was within a yard of him.

Q. How long was you so near him?

W. Poor. Not long, for he went to the other end of the shop, and said, Here is another bombazeen, let us cut it.

Q. Did you know his face then?

W. Poor. I did. He had often been at our house before.

Q. Did you know his voice?

W. Poor. I had often heard him speak before.

Q. Can you be very sure you saw that man, the prisoner there?

W. Poor. I could not say otherwise, without I tell lies in his behalf.

Q. Was it very light?

W. Poor. It was light enough to see all the looms distinctly, the shop is 36 feet long, and all glass on one side.

(Counsel, the other two men. Doyle and Valloine, were tried for culting the work of Thomas Horton < no role > , now they find his name is Joseph Horton < no role > .)

John Darkin < no role > . I am servant to Mr. Joseph Horton < no role > , a manufacturer in the silk way in the weaving; he had goods manufacturing at the house of Thomas Poor < no role > , in August last. On the 8th his silk was cut. I went there on the ninth to take it away, and found it all cut. The bombazeen was cut and destroyed. It was cut cross, and rendered of no use at all.

Q. To whom does the reed and harness belong?

Darkin. They belong to my master.

Cross-Examination.

Q. Where is your master?

Darkin. He is is sick in bed, not capable of attending.

Q. When did you first hear of this?

Darkin. I first heard of it the 9th of August, between five and six in the morning. I went there between eight and nine.

Q. How many looms did you find cut?

Darkin. I found only one cut. There were two, but only one was cut.

Q. Was you here on the former trial?

Darkin. No, I was not.

Prisoner's Defence.

That very night, when the goods were cut at mother Poor's house, I was at a house in Old-street-road; I think it is the Sign of the Well and Bucket. I went on account of a woman that was taken on a warrant, with intent to be one of her bail; as I was going I met the constable, or at least the head-borough, coming back. I knew him. I said, how do you do? be said, Is it you Horsford? I said, yes. He told me, he had been and left the woman in Bridewell. Then I went back with him to that house, and staid-there from eight o'clock, till between one and two the next morning, being the ninth; there was one Mr. Daniel Fitzharris < no role > along with me. I hope your lordship will be kind to look into the infamous character of the woman that appears against me.

Court. If you have any witnesses to call of that sort they shall be heard .

For the prisoner.

Francis Barton < no role > . I live at the bottom of Lamb-alley, Bishopsgate-street. I was headborough of St. Leonard's Shoreditch; I am a weaver. On the 8th of August I served a warrant on a woman, named Elizabeth Gun < no role > ; she was committed to Clerkenwell-bridewell. Here is the warrant. (Producing it.) I took her and carried her before justice Girdler, about six that evening, as near as I can guess; and he committed her to Bridewell. I took her there. I was coming home and met William Horsford < no role > in Old-street-road, and another man with him, who he was I did not know. About the hour of seven I asked Horsford, where he was going; he said he was coming to look for me, and my prisoner. Said I, do you know Mrs. Gun? He said, he had but a small acquaintance with the woman, but this man has (meaning the man with him.) I said, what are you going to do? He said, I am going to make a friend to bail her. I said, as you are no house-keeper, you need not tarry; your bail will not be taken. Then he said, hang it, or D - n it, let us go and have a pot of beer. I said, then we will go to my halfway house; that is to the Well and Bucket; we went there.

Q. What time might that be that you went there?

Barton. That might be about seven; that house is half way from Shoreditch to Clerkenwell-bridewell, or New-prison; it is in Old-street-road. We had one pot of beer, then another pot, and so we kept on till between one and two in the morning. I remember, I asked William Horsford < no role > about his wife's grand-mother; as to any other material account I can give no manner of account of; because it is impossible to give an account when I never thought to be called upon

Q Was the prisoner ever out of the house in that time?

Barton. I declare to God he never was out of the house in that time, without he went out to make water; he was not missing five minutes.

Q. What day of the week was it?

Barton. I do not know.

Cross-Examination.

Q. How do you know it was the eighth day of August?

Barton. I sware by my warrant, that being the eighth.

Q. Have you no other reason to know the day but by that?

Barton. No, I have not.

Q. When was the woman committed?

Barton. She was committed about the hour of six, or between six and seven.

Q. Are you acquainted at the Well and Bucket?

Barton. That is a house where I always call as I go by.

Q. Did you meet the prisoner before you came to the Well and Bucket, or had you past it?

Barton. They were come past it; they went back with me there; I was not got to it.

Q. How long have you known Horsford?

Barton. I have known him near five years.

Q. Were you very intimate?

Barton. We were as intimate as two own brothers in regard to friendship, and have been near five years.

Q. Who paid the reckoning?

Barton. I paid my share of the money.

Q. How much did you pay?

Barton. I cannot tell how much.

Q. Was you sober when you came away?

Barton. I was not really sober.

Q. Then how came you to fix upon the time?

Barton. As I was coming through Featherstone-street, I heard a watchman calling out, half an hour after one o'clock.

Q. Which way did Horsford go?

Barton. I can give no manner of account which way he went when he left me.

Q. Whose custody has this warrant been in since?

Barton. It has been in my custody ever since.

Q. Do you know the person's name that was with you and Horsford?

Barton. I heard his name mentioned to-day; he came to me last Monday.

Q. When was application made to you to appear here?

Barton. There never was none till last Monday.

Q. Who keeps this house, the Well and Bucket, in Old-street-road?

Barton. I cannot tell.

Q. What room were you in?

Barton. We were in the tap room.

Q. Were any other people in that room besides you three?

Barton. Yes; there were.

Q. What is the name of the landlord of the house?

Barton. I don't know; I can tell his face better than his name.

Q. Did you ever converse with him?

Barton. I have.

Q. When was this warrant taken out?

Barton. I got the warrant the same day that the woman was committed.

Q. Where did you get it?

Barton. John Caffey < no role > brought it to me the same day that I served it, and she was committed the same day to Bridewell.

John Fitzharris < no role > . I know the prisoner extraordinary well, and have for six years and above. I remember being with him that evening that Elizabeth Gun < no role > was taken to Clerkenwell Bridewell.

Q. When was that?

Fitzharris. That was in the month of August last.

Q. By what do you remember it?

Fitzharris. I have a very particular reason to remember the day; the very morning after Mr. John Darkin < no role > , who is foreman to Mr. Horton, came to me in the morning about seven o'clock, as nigh as I can gness, and asked me if all was well. I did not understand him at first who he was. He asked me again, if all was well. He signified to me some work was cut out that night. that belonged to his master; and I know I spent that evening before with Mr. Horsford.

Q. Where did you meet with him, at what house, and how long did you stay together?

Fitzharris. I know there was a warrant against that woman, and Mr. Horsford and I went together to see if we could mitigate the matter. She was an acquaintance of mine. I was shop-mate to her husband. I went to William Horsford < no role > , and took him along with me. I turned my glass at past seven, and it was near eight. We both went together, thinking to overtake Mr. Barton, before Elizabeth Gun < no role > was committed. We met him in Old-street road; but I believe rather beyond Old-street road. He acquainted us she was committed, and he signified to me she was somewhat obstropolous, or she might have been off. He asked us if we would drink; we agreed. Then he said he would go to the half-way house, the Well-and-bucket; we went there, and, from the time we went in, it was above a quarter of an hour past one in the morning before we went away.

Q. Was Horsford absent from you in that time?

Fitzharris. No, he was not five minutes from my company during that time.

Q. How far is the Well-and-bucket from the place where Mr. Horton's silk was cut?

Fitzharris. I have seen the place, but to tell how far it is I cannot.

Q. How far do you think?

Fitzharris. I do verily believe in my soul it is half a mile distant.

In a very few Days will be published the third and last Part of these Proceedings, containing the Remainder of this and the other Trials.

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery FOR THE CITY of LONDON; And also the Gaol-Delivery for the County of MIDDLESEX; HELD AT JUSTICE-HALL in the OLD-BAILEY, On Wednesday the 6th, Thursday the 7th, Friday the 8th, Saturday the 9th, and Monday the 11th of DECEMBER, 1769.

In the Tenth Year of His MAJESTY's Reign. Being the First SESSION in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honourable William Beckford < no role > , Esq; LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.

NUMBER I. PART III.

LONDON:

Sold by S. Bladon, at No. 28, in Pater-noster-Row.

THE PROCEEDINGS ON THE

King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol-Delivery, held for the City of LONDON, &c.

Cross-Examination.

Q. WHAT is your reason for remembering the time?

Fitzharris. My particular reason for remembering the time, is, because Mr. Horton's foreman asked me if all was well; and afterwards said he had been at two or three places, and his master's work was cut.

Q. Did he mention where the work was cut?

Fitzharris. No, he did not; he said that night and that morning.

Q. What was your conversation while together at the Well-and-bucket?

Fitzharris. We talked of bailing the woman, he asked if we were house-keepers.

Q. Did he know either of you before?

Fitzharris. He knew Horsford very well.

Q. What other conversation had you?

Fitzharris. There were several things talked about. We talked sometimes about one thing, and sometimes about another.

Q. Can you recollect any?

Fitzharris. We talked about Wilkes and trade. There was a gentleman, on the right side of the fire-place, talked about geograffee, or geograffee.

Q. Were no relations talked about?

Fitzharris. Mr. Barton asked Mr. Horsford about his grandmother, or his wife's grandmother.

Q. Who paid the reckoning?

Fitzharris. I believe I paid part of it. I always do, if I have money. I am sure I paid some of it, but cannot recollect how much.

Q. How many pots of beer had you?

Fitzharris. I can't tell that.

Q. Had you half a dozen?

Fitzharris. We had, I believe, more than half a dozen. I am certain of that.

Q. Did Horsford pay part of the reckoning?

Fitzharris. I am certain he did, but do not remember what; I know the reckoning was paid.

Q. Did the constable pay any thing towards it?

Fitzharris. I am not sure whether he did or not.

Q. Can you be certain as to knowing the time of the night?

Fitzharris. I have a very good reason for knowing that, there being a moment hand, or second hand, upon the clock. I went and took observation of it while the hand was going round one minute, then it was past one o'clock. I am certain it was ten minutes past and above.

Richard Stevens < no role > . I lay in Poor's work-shop. I remember the night the cutters came. I lay with Tom Riley < no role > . I did not see any thing of the matter. Neither did I hear any thing of them. I awaked about one o'clock. My shop-mate waked me after they were gone.

Q. What sort of a night was it? Was it dark or light?

Stevens. It was a very dark night. I don't think any one could distinguish any one's face that night. I could not know my father's face from my mother's at that time. Thomas Clark < no role > called me up and waked me out of my sleep, and told me the work was cut in the shop. I did not believe it. I set up in my bed, then I went to the loom and felt. I could not see the loom, it was so dark. I felt the work was cut. I could not distinguish a man from a woman then. My shop-mate that lay with me, told me they had been gone half an hour.

Cross-Examination.

Q. Did not you see your Mistress that night?

Stevens. No, I did not see her till morning.

Q. Did she not speak to you soon after the cutters were gone?

Stevens. No, I am sure she did not. Clark came to me without a candle, in his shirt, and told me it was my shop mate's work, that lay in the bed with me.

Q. How near was that loom to your bed?

Stevens. It was within about two yards and a half.

Q. What time did you go to bed that night?

Stevens. I went to bed between nine and ten.

Q. Was you sober?

Stevens. Quite sober.

Q. Did you hear a pistol fired?

Stevens. No. I heard nothing.

Q. Did you see the loom next morning?

Stevens. I did, the harness was cut a-cross, and the reed bent quite double, and the silk cut beyond the harness.

Q. Was you here on the other trial?

Stevens. I was not.

Q. Who did you first tell it to, that it was so dark?

Stevens. I don't know.

Q. Where was you when Doyle was tried?

Stevens. I don't doubt but I might be at work at that time, at Ben. William's, in Spital-fields. I worked there about six weeks, and it may be more.

Thomas Clark < no role > . I lay in that room at the time the work was cut, by the chimney-place.

Q. Do you remember the noise of the cutters coming in?

T. Clark. Yes, sir, I got up.

Q. Do you remember your mistress's coming in?

Clark. Yes, I was up before her. The cutters were in the room before my mistress came in. I could not distinguish any one, the night was so dark.

Q. Did you observe whether they had any weapons in their hands?

Clark. I could not distinguish any thing in their hands, the night was so execussive dark. I was in the shop all the time. I could not see any thing that they did, or any one of them.

Q. Could you see as well as your mistress could see?

Clark. I could see as well as she.

Q. Was you near your mistress?

Clark. I was, and it might be a quarter of an hour, more or less.

Q. Did you stay in the room till she went back again?

Clark. I did. When the cutters were gone, I went up to the loom on the right hand towards the window. I could not perceive any damage done to the loom; it was so dark I could see nothing. I called another of my shop-mates, who was asleep all the time the cutters were there. We could not see, but we felt and groped about. We could not see to distinguish any person. Was my own father there I could not have seen him from another man. Neither the colour of their clothes, nor their hair.

Cross-Examination.

Q. How did you do to distinguish your mistress from the cutters?

Clark. I could distinguish her by being in her hift.

Q. You say the cutters came in before your mistress.

Clark. I could not see her come in, but I heard her voice. I got out of my bed before they came in.

Q. How come you to get out of your bed then?

Clark. To get out of their way. I knew they were coming.

Q. By what?

Clark. I heard my mistress say the day before, she expected them, that they would come at night.

Q. Did you hear what they said when in the room?

Clark. I cannot recollect what they said. Neither can I tell who let them in.

Q. Was you afraid of them?

Clark. I was not. I knew they would not hurt me, nor no-body that was there.

Q. Why so?

Clark. I have no reason, but I knew it.

Q. Then, Why did you get out of bed?

Clark. I heard they would cut the work at the upper end, and I was afraid they would come to that place. I got out of bed to save that work from them.

Q. Whose work was it they were for cutting?

Clark: It was Mr. Horton's work. Mrs. Poor told me they were to cut that particular work.

Q. Did you think it more likely they would cut the work near the door, or farther from the door?

Clark. That was Walker's work that I went to save.

Q. Did you know they came to cut Walker's work.

Clark. No.

Q. Then whose work did you get out of bed to save?

Clark. I got out of bed to save Mr. Thompson's work. I heard they were come to cut Mr. Walker's work and Mr. Thompson's. Mrs. Poor said so that day.

Q. Did any body desire you to save Mr. Walker's work?

Clark. No.

Q. Why did you prefer Mr. Walker's work to Mr. Horton's? Did you desire them not to cut that work you went to save?

Clark. No, sir.

Q. By what means was you to save it?

Clark If < no role > they should ask me whose work it was, I would have told them; but they never asked me, or I would have spoke.

Q. Did you say any thing to them when they were cutting Mr. Horton's work?

Clark. No, I did not. I heard them say, Mr. Horton did not give a price for his work.

Q. What has Mr. Horton to do with Mr. Poor's Journeymen?

Clark. He has nothing to do with them. It was, that he did not pay Mr. Poor price enough.

Q. Upon your oath, Did Mr. Walker pay a better price than Mr. Horton?

Clark. I cannot say that.

Q. Where did you place yourself when you ran to save this work?

Clark. I placed myself down towards the bottom of the shop.

Q. You knew they could not see you, How could they find you out, to ask you whose work it was?

Clark. No answer.

Q. Was there any bed that a man might escape under?

Clark. Yes, sir.

Q. Was not you under that?

Clark. No, I was not. I stood up in the shop. I got out of bed before the cutters came in at the door.

Q. You was not joked afterwards with running away from a woman in her shift?

Clark. That was some time after the cutters came in that I saw her in her shift.

Q. Did the cutters ask whose work was in the loom?

Clark. They asked whose work is this, and whose work is this?

Q. Who did they ask?

Clark. The man in the shop.

Q. What, the man in bed?

Clark. Yes.

Q. Then they could see the man in bed?

Clark. No, sir.

Q. Who did they ask? they could not see you?

Clark. I said that was Mr. Horton's, and that was Mr. Thompson's.

Q. Did not you tell me you never spoke to them? You said they never asked you, or else you would have spoke. Did not you say you never spoke to them?

Clark. No answer.

Counsel for the Prisoner. Whether your mistress was the person that was spoke to by them, and whether she spoke to them?

Clark. They wished her a good night when they went out, and that is all I can recollect.

Q. Did not they ask her whose work this was, and whose work that was?

Clark. I don't recollect that they asked her.

Q. Then who did they ask?

Clark. They asked me when I was towards the farther end of the shop.

Q. Did any of them come there?

Clark. Yes, Sir, they went all over the shop.

Q. Did they, or did they not come to the farther end of the shop, where you was?

Clark. Yes, sir, and all over the room.

Q. Were they near you, when they asked you about the looms?

Clark. They were pretty near me. They said, they would not cut that.

Q. How many cutters were in the room?

Clark. I believe there were more than two or three, but how many I cannot tell.

Q. How many voices did you hear?

Clark. I heard the voice of but one.

Q. Did you know that one?

Clark. No.

Q. Did they stop at all before they went down stairs?

Clark. I do not think they did; I can't be sure of that.

Q. Did you hear them say any thing after they went out of the room?

Clark. No, I did not hear them; the whole of what they said was, Whose loom is this, and whose loom is this? and they bad them a good night when they went away; and God bless you!

Q. Was any body meddled with in the place, or molested?

Clark. No one was molested.

Q. Did nobody lay hold round Mrs. Poor's neck?

Clark. I could not perceive any thing of that.

Abel Dowas < no role > . I remember the night the loom was cut; I said in the very next room to Mrs. Poor, in a room that I rent. I heard the cutters come up, and I arose immediately out of my bed, and looked through a hole in my own door, and there I stood. Their door and mine are within two feet and a half of one another.

Q. What did you see when you looked?

Downs. I could see nothing it was so dark. I could not distinguish one man from another. I could not know a person's face, or any thing. I staid all the time in my shirt looking to them:

Cross Examination.

Q. Was you looking to them all the time til they went down from the time they came up?

Clark. I was. I stood there to hearken to them. I heard them knock at the door, and desire them to open the door. She arose and opened the door. She said, coming Gentlemen, and unlocked, and unbolted it, and they came through, and went into the shop.

Q. Did you hear them speak?

Clark. I never heard them say a word; they only knocked at the door. I did not hear them say one single word till they went away; her room was between me and the shop.

Q. What sort of a hole was it that you looked through?

Clark. It was a large hole, above an inch long; an old large key-hole around one. I declare to God I don't know how many there were; I know there were more than one.

Q. Did you not see a woman in her shift?

Clark. I did not: whatever they said in the shop I could not hear.

Thomas Sykes < no role > . I think it was on the twenty-seventh of September, about nine in the morning. Mr. Dean's son came to my house to acquaint me, that Mr. Poor had moved his bed away, and his wife was in Bridewell, and Mr. Dean was gone to Sturbridge-fair. I collect rents for Mr. Dean at my leisure time; I went directly and went into Poor's shop; there I made a distress for the deficiency of rent, two pounds thirteen shillings and four-pence, to September the 15th; when I had just began the inventory. Mrs. Poor came in. She asked me what business I had there. I told her I wanted the rent, and if she would pay me, I had no business there. She told me she had no money, how should she pay, we have no work? and made such excuses and was very hard, &c. at last she came to words, and said she would blow my brains out; whereupon I was obliged to send for an officer; then she became more peaceable. When I had almost finished, she said she knew seventeen of the cutters, and she would hang them, except they would give her thirty pounds. She said she had got Doyle fast. I said, suppose they will not give you thirty pounds. She said then they might do as they pleased, for she would never appear against them.

Q. What might be the value of all their goods together?

Sykes. What I sold I sold for three guineas. I never saw many more goods in the house, tho' I have been in the house an hundred times.

Q. What, in your opinion, were all their goods worth?

Sykes. I do not suppose all were worth above ten shillings more than what I sold them for.

Q. Were they worth six pounds?

Sykes. No, nor four: no broker would ever give four pounds for all the goods they had in the house, looms and all; they were valued at three pounds three shillings, and I sold them for that.

The jury withdrew with the warrant that was produced by Barton. When they returned the foreman told the court, that by observing it by the light the date so med to be the 5th, which had afterwards been made into a figure of 8, upon which they had sent a private messenger to Bridewell for the commitment of Elizabeth Gun < no role > , which they produced to the court, with a hole in it, taken from off a file, which was dated the 5th of August.

Guilty. Death . Recommended .